[Suggestion] Protoss late-game (Templar + Tempest)

General Discussion
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(This is a long post - scroll to the end to get to the point)

So this is possibly a slightly risky one, but since there’s hope that some balance changes are along the way (with them starting with cheese-based ones as of writing this post), I wanted to address some awkwardness with late-game protoss.

In PvZ, it so often devolves into Tempests vs. Viper/Spore forests with Lurker support and the like, so Tempests were given the ability to do massive damage versus structures as an indirect solution, but this causes a lot of overlap with the Carrier because Tempests are meant to be siege units, not an assault unit like the Carrier is. It gets difficult in other match-ups because it allows them to very quickly destroy distant mining bases as well (for all races), almost unfairly so.

On the other side of things, Terran Ghosts, especially when controlled well, are a late-game counter to most things Zerg and Protoss have, especially with EMP, and if they’re kept behind the Marines and Marauders afterwards, they almost never die even if a Templar manages to land a Feedback on them (they will only die if they have the full 200 energy).

Which brings me back to Vipers… they’re a unit that is very difficult for Protoss to deal with because of the large range of spells it has. Abduct for Colossi and Tempests, Blinding Cloud for Stalkers and Immortals (although I find this is used more in ZvT and ZvZ) and Parasitic Bomb against air compositions. If a High Templar manages to land Feedback on one, it takes it out of the fight, where ht has to go home, get transfused by a Queen and siphon the life off an Extractor and try again, but the High Templar will likely have to merge into an Archon, not having any energy left to deal with it next time. Especially when you’re dealing with Spore forests and Lurkers (which can easily pick High Templars, maybe giving them the chance to land one spell unless you’re very good with Warp Prisms), it’s much more desirable to actually kill the Viper and be more cost-even, especially as it can then give a window to break through the Spore forest in a much more exciting and dynamic way.

So, all that aside, what are the suggestions?

  • Introduce an upgrade at the Templar Archives (suggestion: Twilight Focus, 150m 150g, ~71 seconds)… doubles the damage of Feedback from 0.5 to 1 HP/energy (which is what it is in Brood War, Wings of Liberty and Heart of the Swarm)… a red glow to Feedback would be nice to indicate to players that it’s been upgraded.

  • Reduce the bonus from Tectonic Destabilisers (Tempest damage upgrade) from +40 vs. Structures to +30 vs. Structures. This puts it on par with a Siege Tank and is not so ridiculously strong… it will now take 6 shots (5 with +3 weapons) to kill a Spore Crawler rather than 5 (with at least 1 upgrade).

(The name Twilight Focus is based on the fact that Feedback was originally a Dark Archon spell, implying that High Templars are learning to tap into the powers of the Void - thus with Twilight Focus, they seek to learn both disciplines in tandem, as Tassadar did)

The changes tone down Tempests a little bit so they’re not as ridiculous at building destruction, while Twilight Focus allows Templar to one-shot Ghosts and Vipers if they can get the shot off. It might have some application in PvP to help break stalemates and sieges when one or both sides have gone for mass Phoenix. The upgrade is very much late-game though, because you’ll want to research Psionic Storm first in most situations.

Thoughts?

(Original suggestion: [Suggestion] Feedback Upgrade)

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Honestly this is really well thought out. I’d be okay with this change.

1 Like
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There is a reason why they nerfed high templar feedback from 1 HP to 0.5, and quite frankly I agree with it. High templars instantly killing units (think medivacs full of marines or vipers with full energy or any other caster really) is a no go. High templars (much later on) got +1 range feedback in an attempt to better deal with vipers. This was very much needed long story short at the time as Protoss was getting slapped by Zerg.

Point being, bringing the damage back up to 1 will never be good. It’s too overpowered. The real solution is to remove the consume ability from vipers. That would be a great start in removing the ridiculous amount of power that vipers hold in the late game right now.

Probably not good. Tempests shoot slow anyway.

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That’s why it’s behind an upgrade that competes with another important upgrade. At the stage of a game where drop play is most active, it won’t yet be researched. True, you could research it the moment you build a Templar Archives, but that seriously delays Psionic Storm, leaving you extremely vulnerable to a standard push, and building 2 Templar Archives to research both simultaneously is not practical given the gas cost.

In the late-game, if you want to do drop play, you usually get far more medivacs for a doom drop, more than you can usually snipe with Feedback unless the stars align with scouting the drop, the Medivacs all being full of energy, the opponent not pulling them away and the Warp Gate cooldown not being active. Liberators can also be used to zone away High Templars. In a standard open-field engagement, Psionic Storm tends to be the better option.

But the biggest thing, if their energy is higher than 150… you can get rid of Medivac energy by stimming some bio units under it, or fire an EMP at them. You generally don’t need that much energy for a drop if you plan to leave the moment the reinforcements swoop in.