Thank you for acknowledging the multitude of counters terran has. Vikings do no have to inherently counter void rays. Its not like they will do more dmg. They will still be very frail. Vikings will be fine they still out range voids by a long shot. And if mech is yohr concern thors will still be plenty effective
2 Likes
See innovation vs patience and their recent best of 9 on YouTube. Innovation responded to a proxy tempest attempt by building I think a couple of vikings and flying over and killing all the probes. Patience just insta gged as soon as they landed. Recall doesnât really work because you can only do it once assuming you have the energy. The Terran can just pick up and do another drop the second the recalled unit moves out and you generally need to recall a lot of units to ensure you dont lose everything to the attacking Terran force (tempests take forever to kill anything). Really proxy tempest is very very easy to beat as a Terran player. I think proxy void is stronger because it hits earlier and voids do more damage overall to buildings and structures.
The basic weakness of all proxy builds across all races is that the main is undefended.
4 Likes
Yeah every time Iâve watched Rotti do a proxy tempest meme Terran shuts it down soundly
1 Like
In practice, mech has only 1 (Vikings). Everything else fails in larger engagements (meaning it is not an effective counter), requires a significant supply advantage or relies on the opponent to do something stupid.
Vikings must counter Void Rays in order for them to be balanced in TvP, and that has been the case since WOL. Like I said earlier though, this is a case to watch. Vikings may still be able to deal with Void Rays.
1 Like
How does it feel, TCF?
To be completely locked out of a tech branch by a matchup, like Protoss have been locked out of Stargate against Terran?
-
You mean to be locked out of up to 2/3 of your units. Most Terran units require mech to be viable in order to have a place in a match-up, or at least a place outside of all-ins.
-
Protoss can go Stargate against Terran whether Terran goes mech or Bio. You do always require splash to deal with Bio in particular, but Phoenixes and Oracles are still regularly used and Carriers or Tempests can be added to your army after you have stabilized. Hypocrite.
1 Like
MMM says it aint so.
On the contrary, thanks to Marines and Thors, Protoss could never go for Stargate against Terran. Stargate units do not have neither the Range, the firepower or the AoE damage to go against Mass Marines.
Apparently, Blizzard disagrees.
I really hate it when you release new patches.
Outside of timing pushes, MMM is restricted to those units, Ghosts/Widow Mines, and units that can be used as support to counter some specific threat (Vikings/Liberator).
Bio is still locked out of 3/4 Factory units and 3/5 Starport units.
Marines do not lock you out of Stargate tech. They only require you to have splash damage. If you have splash damage then you can put Stargate units in your army. Protoss has no issues with that other than the cost.
Based on what exactly. The fact that they reworked Immortals and made numerous improvements to Factory units so that mech would be usable in the match-up?
You are a hypocrite because you are complaining about units that you can use (provided you make Colossus, HT, or Disruptors first, since you still need splash), and yet you think it is acceptable to prevent most of another factionâs units from being usable.
1 Like
The cost is everything.
The whole reason why Toss cannot recoup from losing a fight is because Toss units are overly expensive, and overly specialized.
Marines do absolutely block all Stargate tech. I think they should be nerfed.
1 Like
Protoss usually recoups from lost fights by warping in a round of Zealots while they rebuild their slower/more-expensive units. They are not incapable of recovery like you just claimed.
Marines require splash damage to kill them off or soften them up for the rest of your army (regardless of comp).
Once you actually have splash damage you can add just about any Protoss air unit to your arsenal:
- Oracles for vision and/or stasis.
- A few Tempests to pick off Liberators or pick off Ghosts that try to EMP, Vikings that try to poke, or other units that try bait out splash.
- Carriers for sustained DPS (and to soak damage with Interceptors) or to counter-poke.
- Phoenixes to pick off Medivacs or weakened Vikings.
2 Likes
No it doesnât, mech has thors, cyclones, widow mines, and vikings. That is 4 options! Its not the void rays faults if you canât use them appropriately. And if vikings have been the counter to voids since WOL its about time voids get buffed considering they are NEVER built in TvP, therefore the interaction has been imbalanced since WOL, so good changes and it may not even be enough!
2 Likes
Funny, you think Protoss can realistically affor both Splash and Air units, when they both are overcosted.
1 Like
Cyclones in particular are irrelevant. Yes they can beat Void Rays in small counts on open ground when there is no interference from other units, but they do not operate well in other conditions (larger fights, compositions that include units that outrange them or have other ways to catch them, etc). In practice, Cyclones are incapable of protecting slower units from the targets they counter, so the Cycloneâs ability to counter a unit in optimal conditions does not balance that unit out in any match-up.
Point taken on the other units, but (pre-patch) at equal supply the fight can go either way depending on a number of factors.
If you keep much of the splash portion of your army alive between fights then yes you can afford it.
Whether or not Protoss units are overpriced varies by unit:
- Zealots, Colossus, Disruptors, Sentries, Oracles, Adepts, Phoenixes, HT, Carriers, Phoenixes, and Archons are all priced fairly.
- Dark Templar and Stalkers are definitely overpriced for combat, but there is some expectation that they can make up for it using their abilities.
- Tempests are overpriced (particularly by supply) or too weak in some areas to justify their cost.
- Void Rays will no longer overpriced after this patch.
- Immortals and Warp Prisms are overpriced based on their performance in both PvP and PvT.
1 Like
War chest team league. Showtime vs Ragnarok-please state again that lurkers are bad in zvp.
Anyone who says they are bad in zvp is delusional.
2 Likes
@Bilzzard team the following 10th anniversary achievements are still buged
First Epilog misson
and the 2nd Zeratul mission
i am pretty sure about them tried them multiple times they must be some how bugged
Wow void rays buff, I think blizz intention is toss can attack zergs without having queens, or maybe just one, but maybe
to bad this is terrans only option to win the game
I heavily disagree, I win macro games as terran all the time, and lose macro games against terran just as much.