SC2 talent continues to decline

[lllIlIlIlIl-1983]

Here is the recent Code S round of 8 with Zest, contrasted against another game of Zest but with a different terran in the driver’s seat:

[ENG] 2021 GSL S3 Code S RO8 Day1

Zest vs. TaeJa - PvT - Quarterfinals - IEM Shenzhen - StarCraft 2

I think it’s crystal-clear the talent in the pro scene is nowhere near peak HotS levels. Taeja won back when Protoss was OP, Terrans can’t win now even after mega nerfs to stalker strategies:

• Blink & stalker have not been nerfed.
• The protoss had the mothership core.
• Terran holds and wins.
• No cyclones or buffed tanks nor buffed vikings.

vs

• Both blink and the stalker have been nerfed.
• No mothership core.
• Massively buffed tanks, cyclones and even vikings that can help deal with this.
• Terran dies; no real competition.

RIP sc2.

[aeligos-1349]

I love this game.
I will be the next pro.
Many "wow"s will be expressed.

[abs-2628]

Batz

I’m not sure if you have noticed but, Protoss can no longer be beaten in a standard macro game (or at least it is very difficult). Instead zergs are trying to beat toss using roach-ravager all-in or queen walk, whereas terrans are trying some unorthodox strategies like, mass widow mine, mass cyclone, speed banshee, rushing to BC etc.

Some of them work in various leagues, others don’t. Accept it.

[BattlePants-1167169]

My hot take is that Taeja was overrated, never won a single Korean premier tournament.

[OldWhovian-1356]

Nothing I saw there showed the HOTS skill level to be higher…just two different maps with two different games that had two different outcomes. If anything I’d say the LotV level seemed higher purely because he didn’t waste an attack cycle shooting the unbuildable rocks on accident.

[thrasher-1486]

@lllIlIlIlIl-1983

mega nerfs to stalker strategies:

@lllIlIlIlIl-1983

The protoss had the mothership core.

XD Yes, what a massive nerf being able to skip getting a MSC and robo before twilight.

[lllIlIlIlIl-1983]

@BattlePants-1167169

My hot take is that Taeja was overrated, never won a single Korean premier tournament

He would’ve made it past Zest in this GSL, that’s for sure. He absolutely clowned on the guy right before protoss received like 6 nerfs to these very strategies. Code S terrans these days can’t win even with the addition of cyclones, liberators, buffed tanks and vikings.

In his HotS form he’d probably win this Code S. In fact I don’t think there really is any doubt about it. He was head and shoulders above the current talent pool way back then. Games like this are absolute, undeniable proof.

[LeProton-1637]

https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/2013_DreamHack_Open/Bucharest
https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/2013_DreamHack_Open/Winter
https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/2014_DreamHack_Open/Summer
https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/IEM_Season_IX_-_Shenzhen

Taeja was a monster.

[lllIlIlIlIl-1983]

@LeProton-1637

Taeja was a monster

Yeah, multiple 2-0’s and 3-0’s vs people who are, in modern SC2, considered GODs. The delusional GSL casters are calling Bunny a “top terran” when he can’t even beat APEtoss. Taeja absolutely slaughtered the best APEtosses on the planet, and made it look easy, back when balance heavily favored the apes.

[BattlePants-1167169]

@lllIlIlIlIl-1983

In his HotS form he’d probably win this Code S. In fact I don’t think there really is any doubt about it. He was head and shoulders above the current talent pool way back then. Games like this are absolute, undeniable proof.

Yeah because his current form was already proven to be non competitive in SC2.

h ttps://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Global_StarCraft_II_League/2020/Season_2

But maybe as a cope to convince yourself that you’re not low GM by virtue of gimmicks, you say you were some place in GM back in the day and players back in the day were better so you’re actually Code S now even though you’re only like M2 if you played standard.

@LeProton-1637

https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/2013_DreamHack_Open/Bucharest
https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/2013_DreamHack_Open/Winter
https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/2014_DreamHack_Open/Summer
https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/IEM_Season_IX_-_Shenzhen

Taeja was a monster.

The lineups were still weaker than GSL. I don’t know how new you are but back in the day, foreigners couldn’t really take series off of Koreans. Like, it was a big deal that Naniwa got 2nd place against a B tier Korean Zerg. I can post plenty of B tier tournaments that Taeja was getting knocked out of, won by players like Pigbaby (who?).

h ttps://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/2014_WCS_Season_2_America/Premier

What a beast!!!

[lllIlIlIlIl-1983]

@BattlePants-1167169

Yeah because his current form was already proven to be non competitive in SC2

He’s like me. He’s a smart guy. No use wasting time on an EZ dead game.

@BattlePants-1167169

But maybe as a cope to convince yourself that you’re not low GM by virtue of gimmicks

Someone is enraged about the last game we played.

https://i.imgur.com/T5rTZSu.png

What do you know. Proxy 2 rax absolutely eviscerated when I took it seriously.

@BattlePants-1167169

you say you were some place in GM back in the day and players back in the day were better so you’re actually Code S now even though you’re only like M2 if you played standard

I have factually proven every zerg receives a minimum of -300 mmr. That’s simply a fact. I would be top 50 if not for balance issues and I am not even trying to win. In fact I am trying as hard as I can to lose.

@lllIlIlIlIl-1983

It absolutely is something to cry about. I would be rank # ~25 on the NA ladder if not for balance. Let’s do the math! Yay! Blizzard’s MMR algorithm is detailed in the AlphaStar paper (page 9):

P(Win) = 1.0 / (1.0 - exp(-(r1 - r2) / 568))

This calculates the odds of Player 1 winning given the difference in rank between Player 1 and Player 2. To calculate a rank difference, we would need to simplify r1-r2 as X then simplify for X:

y=1/(1 + exp(-X / 568))

y * (1 + exp(-X / 568)) = 1

(1 + exp(-X / 568)) = 1 / y

exp(-X / 568) = 1 / y - 1

-X / 568 = ln(1 / y - 1)

-X = ln(1 / y - 1) * 568

X = -ln(1.0 / y - 1) * 568

Great! Now we plug in the win-rate difference for Y:

r1 - r2 = -ln(1.0 / 0.4242 - 1) * 568
r1 - r2 = -173.6

In other words, the exact amount that Protoss get their rank inflated is +173.6 MMR compared to zergs. We can do the same for TvZ:

r1 - r2 = -ln(1.0 / 0.4476 - 1) * 568
r1 - r2 = -119.5

So Zergs get a whopping -293.1 MMR because they pick Zerg. That means I would be 5700 mmr if not for balance issues

[BattlePants-1167169]

@lllIlIlIlIl-1983

Someone is enraged about the last game we played.

https://i.imgur.com/T5rTZSu.png

What do you know. Proxy 2 rax absolutely eviscerated when I took it seriously.

I have that map vetoed? Is that me?

@lllIlIlIlIl-1983

I have factually proven every zerg receives a minimum of -300 mmr. That’s simply a fact. I would be top 50 if not for balance issues and I am not even trying to win. In fact I am trying as hard as I can to lose.

LOL you have 10 SPM my dude. Is that diamond mechanics or low masters?

[lllIlIlIlIl-1983]

https://i.imgur.com/ZhzDcNe.png

Oops, there I go chadding all over the ladder again.

[BattlePants-1167169]

Do you not have people in your life you can show this to?

[lllIlIlIlIl-1983]

@BattlePants-1167169

Do you not have people in your life you can show this to

To them it’s just normal. Oh wow, you clowned on another GM in SC2. Amazing /s:

https://i.imgur.com/zZtUpyX.png

Note the timing on the game: 3 minutes and 9 seconds to crush this guy with a hatch first build.

You see I’ve been overperforming since age like 2. They suspected but really weren’t sure until I was in the 4th grade. My fathers side has a slight learning disability and my mother’s side is reasonably intelligent, probably above average. None of my siblings (up to that point) were super smart. When I took the standardized testing my scale score in mathematics was 746. That’s above average for a 10th grader and roughly 4 standard deviations from the mean for a fourth grader, putting my IQ at somewhere in the 160 range.

[BattlePants-1167169]

@lllIlIlIlIl-1983

To them it’s just normal. Oh wow, you clowned on another GM in SC2. Amazing:

It’s not impressive to me either. Beating low GMs or whatever masters takes 0 skill, why would I care. So go find someone that cares, thanks.

[lllIlIlIlIl-1983]

@BattlePants-1167169

It’s not impressive to me either. Beating low GMs or whatever masters takes 0 skill, why would I care. So go find someone that cares, thanks

I’ve done the same to even Code S players. Everyone has seen the one where PartinG is playing on his “NoWcsForYou” account and I absolutely eviscerate him in less than 4 minutes to the point where he rage-quits NA and goes back to the KR ladder. Rogue tried the same build vs a weaker protoss and couldn’t make it work.

[BattlePants-1167169]

@lllIlIlIlIl-1983

I’ve done the same to even Code S players.

Give me the replay or don’t respond to me again, thanks.

[lllIlIlIlIl-1983]

@BattlePants-1167169

Give me the replay or don’t respond to me again, thanks

In the video’s chat you can clearly see me BM him about getting a real job as he types “GG”.

[BattlePants-1167169]

Replay or stop talking to me, thanks. Not gonna respond after this.