My problem with infested terran removal

There is no doubt that infested terrans can serve a lot of roles - dropped in mineral lines for harass, eggs dropped in front of large units as blockers, eggs dropped next to siege tanks to bait out friendly fire, Decent anti air - especially anti harass in combo with fungal. By taking out infested terrans Blizzard is not just substantially weakening zerg’s anti air - they are also weakening zerg’s harass, and zerg’s ability to push into fortified positions.
The replacement spell is garbage for several reasons - especially vs protoss. First of all zerg only has 2 ground to air attackers - hydra and queens. Hydra are just way too vulnerable against protoss splash (storm, disruptors or collussus wreck large clumps of hydra quickly - a protoss can mass carrier, with a handful of any one of these splash damage units and the new anti air cloud spell won’t help one bit. Not to mention two of protoss’s air units - oracles and phoenix which also do bonus vs hydra won’t be affected by the cloud (oracles do spell damage, and phoenix lift the hydra up out of the cloud).
I think Blizzard is forgetting that they buffed the infested terran by adding the rockets against air because zerg ground to air was already pretty garbage. They also nerfed hydra attack speed not that long ago. Now they are looking to take the unit away entirely without any fill in? Not sure what zerg is supposed to do in response, especially vs protoss air - except turtle harder with spores and use even more swarm hosts. In my opinoion this is not how to make the game more fun to play or watch and is taking away some of the cool high IQ and stealthy plays that infestors previously had. If infested terrans are too strong just nerf the damage or add a couple seconds to the egg timer.

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Can you at the very least wait untill the pro players get a grasp off the MASSIVE change that is the removal of infested terrans untill you pretend you have a clue of what youre talking about?

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1.) A lot more people play the game than just pros.
2.) Change directly impacts some of the play styles I currently enjoy playing
3.) My comments are less about balance, and more about unit roles and how to the game is played.
I don’t have the statistics - but I would say that looking at the top ~20 players is not really a great sample size to determine whether a game is well balanced at all levels or not. I trust that Blizzard does have those statistics and is interested in creating a game that targets balance at all levels. I’m not claiming in any way that the changes being made will make games “unwinnable” by any particular race. Certainly - some play styles will be significantly impacted by the changes - chargelot all-ins for example will probably go by the wayside and I’ll shed no tears for that. I just hate to see Blizzard taking away a unit like the infested terran that did have a good bit of varied utility and replace it with a spell, (that you have to pay to research by the way) that seems to be pretty easily negated.

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That’s really funny.

Yeah and the previous changes prevented styles I liked playing too.

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That’s exactly the problem though. Infested Terran provide far too much utility; to the point that it is problematic like Seeker Missiles and PDD.

Microbial Shroud is a much better replacement. It is far more useful than most Zerg players seem to understand or they are wiling to admit.

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Yeah. It sure is a shame that your win conditions might be more than “I made Infestors…”

I’m well and truly sorry you hate having to “play the game” in order to win it, rether than making a single unit that carves the other races in half like a glowing hot katana through pre melted butter.

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Not more than mistakes so this point is very slightly true but ballance will not make or break your game.

Theres not many strategies you cannot pull off at diamond level or even below gm because of ballance. If you can play mech every game in tvp you can pull of most strategies.

The point is to have a ballanced game at the top level, nothing below the best players in the world (maybe a little more than top 20% but im not sure where they aim for).

The reason for this is that below this level mistakes will usually if not always have a bigger impact than ballance.

This is true but the problem with chargelot all ins in perticular is that its a strategy that is extremely easy to execute vs the effort it requires to defend wich i personally think is bad for the game but thats my oppinion. You can still utilise this strategy up untill a certain treshhold wich i honestly believe is further up than diamond/master.

Because infestesd terran has either been useless or extremely problematic at any point in sc2. It was never in a ballanced state, even in wol we saw mass infestor broodlord destroying everything with fungal + infested terrans so its been around since launch and removing a spell you cannot get right after 10 years is smart.

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You’re right that the changes to balance will most likely not make or break my game in terms of substantial impact to my MMR . I would say that at my level there are certainly some styles that I already have a very hard time against which seems like they are getting a boost in the new patch. For example- at high levels I see vipers lurkers and hydras working out fairly well vs. Thor/Tank/Hellion. At my level though I find Vipers extremely hard to integrate into my army comps - First you need to charge them up, then you need to keep them control grouped separately to keep them from derping into your opponent’s army, and then you have to be precise with your targeting to pull the right units in - all while needing to advance and burrow your lurkers while not accidentally burrowing your hydras. All doable on paper and the pros can make it work, but for me it feels like Terran can build a very robust mostly a-movable army on 3-4 bases. Protoss also has a version of this with carriers, tempest and high templar.
I’d be much less opposed to the removal if I felt like new options were being offered to fill the gaps in roles with other units, and I don’t disagree that infestors probably were a bit too generalist. However, zerg are left with just 2 units that shoot up from the ground, with one of those not designed to be an offense unit - Terran have 5, protoss have 3. If infested terrans are taken out I feel like there should be something else to replace some of those roles to keep play varied. From the bit of homestory cup I’ve watched it’s looking like a lot of hydra lurker viper is going to be used by zerg in all matchups which I think will get stale fast.

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Oh no more than 1 control group. Didn’t you have your Infestors in a different control group? How would you play infestor broodlord otherwise?

Practice makes perfect.

I mean you’re over exaggerating a bit. Sure fair comment, point and click precision is a skill, it’s part of mechanics and as such you will get better with practice.

However, the types of units you are abducting are usually big. Thors, Carriers, Motherships, Tanks, BCs. These are all big units, they aren’t that hard to click on, Terrans have been target firing (or trying to lol) banelings for years, if they can manage that, you can manage to click on a thor no? If you’re really having trouble with this you might want to consider looking at your mouse sensitivity, it might be too high.

Lurkers are higher priority than Hydras, you would actively have to try and burrow hydras instead of Lurkers, don’t understand this point at all. It’s really no different to Terran siege tanks, other than lurkers siege and un-siege must faster.

You have two control groups (at most three if for some reason you have Hydras and lurkers on separate binds, but I feel this unnecessary personally) to manage with your main army. You don’t have to tab for the first one (lurker/hydra) so you move forward, one button press and you’ve burrowed your lurkers, un-borrow to reposition, etc. Then just use your vipers and abduct things into it, throw out para bombs/clouds, whatever takes your fancy.

Lambo said this is largely due to the abduct bug against BCs, as to why we are seeing it so much against Terran. I recall he said he didn’t think it would be as popular against Terran after this was fixed, it will depend on the game state.

I also seem to remember him saying broodlord infestor corruptor would still be good against bio ghost liberator due to the fact infested terrans where never that good against that anyway, it was fungal and abduct on liberators.

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Yet in HSC right now there are terrans winning games because they spammed mass orbital. If free units / mass spellcasters is bad for the game, a nerf to the orbital / mule is long overdue.

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If you honestly believe any of this then you either have no understanding of lategame tvz or youre extremely biased and just ran out of other options to whine about.

*yawn… 3500 posts and nothing interesting said yet…

Thanks for admitting you have no rebuttal. Glad we can agree mass orbital is just as abusive as mass infestor.

Sure hate seeing 120 supply armies getting destroyed by mass mule calldown.

The terran lategame winrate is just way too insane, how did anyone ever win tvz or tvp lategame in 2019, oh wait terran was rubbish lategame despite having extremely op mules?

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Right. All the pros are crying about mass orbitals… not responding to a brain dead argument is not an admission of it’s accuracy. Some arguments are simply so stupid they discredit themselves.

I’m of the opinion that pro Terran players should actually have to earn their wins. You want Zergs to be able to look away from the screen for 15 minutes, take a nap, and wake up to winning the GSL.

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Infested Terrans were a balance nightmare. It’s good that they are removed.

Now Hydralisk and even Mutalisk could get some buffs, but also the new infestor ability needs some buffs like not being locked behind hive tech.

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Corruptor/viper? Ever tried that?

Why exactly does mutalisks need buffs? They can be game ending in pvz if a surprise and are viable as a lair tech option in tvz.

Too expensive and too niche. Has no late game upgrade, also the 3rd bounce on glaives only does 1 damage.

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Used in every matchup so its obviously too expensive and niche.

Because its not designed for direct engagement or as a main part of your army, but rather the ultimate hit and run/harassment unit?