Make mutas great again

I really would like to see mutas more but
to buff them they need to remove Fast regeneration
that is the whole issue
why protoss even opens mostly sg because they are so fast ready again and you can’t move out and they again incredible snowballing without the super hard counters

so in order to get mutas back remove fast regen and you can make them get faster and cheaper no problem since terran GtA is incredible vs mutas anyway

the whole mutas being to strong started in hots with this buff which lead to buffing their counter units insanely to hold them off

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Mutas are perfectly fine as they are.

Which counters were buffed against mutas?

“I like having fun with muta, but i also want to win the game” -cit

Also has anyone watched that recent pro match cast from lowko where the dude almost lost 90 mutas in a match. That hurts. Muta is not in a good position in any match up except prob zvz

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The widow mine exists now specifically because of the regen, phoenixes were given an extra upgrade to help them counter mutas, thors have gone through just so many iterations trying to keep a good dynamic with them, spore crawlers were, for the longest time, given extra damage versus air bio specifically to drive off mutas.

There have been a lot of buffs specifically to counter mutalisks.

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If mutas are any better than they are now, then there will be 100000000000 zvzs. No one would want to play any other race if mutas were better.

Sky comps are already the strongest and most viable comp in the game, we don’t need to buff SkyCraft 2 like that.

Well what does everyone expect. The second mutas become good in a matchup, the entire world complains and Blizzard promptly nerfs it and when Mutas suck the world wonders where they went. Well which one is it, mutas viable or no?

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I don’t think anybody except for zerg players want to see mutalisks be a mainstay unit.

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To be honest, I really enjoyed Ling/Bane/Muta, it is one style I do wish would come back. Very micro intensive games those games were.

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I think trying to have mutalisks be both a dedicated harass unit and a full army unit is probably a mistake. You simply cant have them be useful at both without being over or undertuned for one role. Right now theyre too expensive to risk as part of an army in real fights, but too powerful as harass units to make them harder to kill.

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Blizzard stated explicitly that people wanted mutas to make a come back and that’s the justification they used for nerfing the thor. Once again “PhD K.” strikes with nothing but his imagination to support his claims!

Mutas haven’t made a come back despite the thor nerfs because the thor was only one of a half dozen reasons why mutas are non viable. First and foremost is how the terran has a boot over the zergs throat at every millisecond of the game and it is very difficult to afford such an expensive tech under those circumstances especially when the unit isn’t good in a straight-up fight. The new terran meta is to always attack the zerg at all times, so zerg needs a unit that is good at head-on engagements which is why they go hydras.

To make mutas viable their cost must reflect their utility and right now it absolutely does not. Mutas put you at a deficit in almost all scenarios. It’s like spending $1000 on a car worth that is only worth $300. It’s just a waste and anyone with a brain isn’t going to do it in the average game.

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Widow mines were a unit before mutalisk regen was buffed. Mutas were buffed specifically because of mines.

Thors were recently nerfed to allow for more muta play, but it still isn’t a viable meta.

There’s no good reason for mutas to be in the spot they’re in now. Zerg has a trash midgame and mutalisks would help a lot.

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LOL. Muta-ling-bane in TvZ is almost unplayable for the terran player and you’re complaining mutas are too weak… Mass mutas is far too strong. If anything they should reverse the thor nerf.

If you think that then you’re just horrible at TvZ

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I’d love to use and see more muta play. One thing I find interesting is that many players complain about the ease of control of zerg units, but then want one of the units which allowed us to have fun microing as far from consistently viable as possible. I want to get supply blocked while controling my muta flock, lemme join in the fun!

On a more serious tone, I’d be willing to take a small nerf somewhere (like hydras, for some reason I’ve grown to hate them, they can get nerfed for all I care) in exchange to get a small muta buff. About that buff, lets discuss it.

I believe that currently the biggest problem with the mutalisk is the huge upfront cost of getting a decent flock that can actually have impact. Say, for example, a 10 muta flock. This costs 1000/1000 + the cost of the spire. This 10 muta flock, which is nothing that can be considered a big muta flock, needs to do huge damage to pay for itself and then you need to stop the inevitable all-in basetrade that will come if you manage to do that damage. Furthermore, the huge gas cost makes trying to leverage a smaller advantage by teching up a very constricting process. Hence, I’d propose a small cost nerf.

If I could get my way, I’d lower muta cost to 100/50, but I’m not going to fool myself into thinking that it is something that could eventually happen or too good of an idea, hence I propose a more sensible 100/75. This would serve two purposes: firstly, for each muta you have saved 25 gas that can go into say an extra baneling or a roach to defend against the possibility of the opponent pressing f2, then shift and a-clicking on all the zerg player bases. Basically, meaning you get to have a bit more regular army. Secondly, the extra gas can be used to tech up (say to hive) if you don’t do game-ending damage, making the transition and possibility to leverage an advantage created by muta play a less constricting process, as you’d have some more gas available to actually transition with. Which is what I’d love mutas to be able to do, harass a bit, mess with the opponent and give me the option to transition by teching up, rather than try to snowball a muta flock into a won basetrade.

I’d like to make clear that this kind of change has a very interesting property in that it doesn’t remove the particularly hard counters associated with mutas. A stargate constantly producing phoenixes will still put an end to any muta flock dreams of snowballing out of control and several thors together will still demolish their numbers even with magic boxing in an extremely cost efficient way. This means that even if their cost is reduced, the extra 33% mutas you can afford with the same gas (minerals are still a hard cap on the number of mutas that can be made anyways) can be dealt with in an extremely cost efficient way as long as the opponent builds the correct counter or scouts the spire building, making their period of effectiveness effectively have a hard timer.

Anyways, I agree with making mutas great again!

Are you suggesting that zerg players are not people?

Somebody should tell the zealots that they aren’t supposed to be good at harassment and the big army fights while being cheap and expendable.

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I wouldn’t exactly call them “good” if the only way to harass with them is to warp in 20 of them and hope the enemy is far enough away to get some damage in before they die.

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You have a really, really strange idea of how zealot harassment works.

The whole harass / army unit dichotomy is such BS. Beyond the reaper and oracle, every single piece of terran and protoss harassment is itself an army unit (and both of those are available earlier, and oracles come with a lot of utility), or unit that still has other utility beyond just harassment. Mutas are too expensive to be pigeon-holed into harass, and really aren’t in the greatest spot outside of ZvZ.

i don’t pretend to know how to fix this, but if Zerg has to play against crap like 2 SG phoenix where you pretty much just turtle and take it, I don’t see why protoss complaints that they don’t want to have to play against muta styles should hold any weight.

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You drop a warp prism near the enemy base and warp in as many zealots as you think will be needed to overwhelm whatever defenses are there so they can move on and start hitting economy stuff. If the enemy is silly and leaves nothing at home, this can be a low number, but if they do that, then they deserve it.

I guess you can run packs of zealots across the map manually as well, but if your enemy has any map presence at all that’s just asking to feed them free zealots when they move to intercept them. Its much safer to just take a warp prism out and warp them in on site.

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