I honestly miss using them, they are currently in a terrible spot imho. They are hardly ever used out of zvz or when the zerg player is so far ahead that he would win anyway. They are hard countered so bad that it’s laughable and at this point they are just a huge gas dump.
In ZvT: it was difficult already to snipe siege tanks with marines running around and wm’s but 1-2 thors can absolutely shred them. Cyclones with their lock-on are a great counter as well.
In ZvP: Phoenix - how can a unit even hardcounter another unit THIS much? Huge mutas switches are quite difficult to pull off nowadays, it is not like a few years ago. Now most of the time I die even before getting a Spire out. Cannons everywhere, SB everywhere…
So what needs to happen to make these once-iconic-units actually usable again? Is the fast regen a problem? Then remove it and make them tankier or something. Or remove the light tag. Or do not allow phoenixes to shoot while moving. Or make mutas shoot without stopping. Let thors prioritize ground…
As a protoss player I don’t miss them, we have no counter except going mass phoenix and protoss get’s so easily asphyxiated by them. NO buffs to muta for as long as phoenix or archons get a buff.
While I agree this was an issue in HotS, is it really a problem nowadays?
You have SB that can greatly help both archons and cannons. Phoenixes can handle mutas easy-peasy with their 7 range (after upgrade) - they will never even get touched by mutas. A < 1/2 of muta amount can handle them efficiently.
Mutas were good because of their regen but to be able to utilize that regen, they actually need to survive (which is not the case against phoenixes). Anyway, that’s why I said - if that regen needs to be dropped, drop it. But make them viable. I think it must currently be the most underutilized (I mean… garbage) unit in the game, even reapers are used more.
Blink stalkers never traded well against mutalisks, especially when there are zerglings or other units on the field. Archons DO wreck them when it comes to straight up fight as long as you have 6-7+ and zerg stacks them. When it comes to dealing with their harassment capabilities protoss has no good tools but phoenix. A good zerg will also use it’s zergling to harass you and just kill you on every front. Your economy is weak it forces you to all in and there are 15 spines, 200 lings and mutas waiting for you.
I think they are in a bad spot right now but I also think they are a dangerous unit to buff, the smallest of buffs can make them become a problem real fast
Also their bounce dmg is laughable! 9-3-1 ?? Vrily?? Not even mentioned bounce distance and this regeneration!! Mutas has very very small window to do dmg! So you cannt wait 1 min to regen their life and go in again! Thats why they re suck…facepalm. Okay, they can win a game, but it s rare. So are they good - yes, they can be good. Are they good that worth 100/100 - absolutely not!!!
Remove stupid SH and give us new unit morphed from Mutalisk to fight Mech. Give them + 10-30 HP, lower regen rate, 1 bounce lesser but 1-3 higher dmg output and + 1-2 range, same speed and no Light attribute as the Ravager.
, New unit name, - 150 HP, 1 Armor, 12 dmg primary target (6 dmg secondary) Biological, speed 5,6, Quick regen 1HP/sec - cost 100/100 Mutalisk + 50/50 Morphing
Mutalisks being borderline useless are my biggest complaint about the game right now. Making mutalisks viable would help Zerg a lot in the midgame and make it so that you don’t have to play for hive tech every game. I think an HP buff would make the most sense since they’re super fragile and die to pretty much anything.
That’s not true in the slightest. Protoss has more counters to mutas today than they ever have. Back in Heart of the Swarm players were beating muta Ling Bane with blink stalker sentry at the WCS Global finals, for example, and that style is even stronger in LotV. Mutas used to be the primary unit comp in the ZvP meta. Now you’re lucky to see 8 made and when they do half the time it’s a complete waste (ex: serral vs stats, Asus ROG).
The problem is that phoenix are too hard of a counter. Once the Protoss gets 4-5 phoenix out mutalisks are completely useless. But right now, even without making phoenix mutalisks still suck because of how late they come out and how cost inefficient they are. Mutas need a pretty substantial buff to not suck anymore.
The ZvP meta revolved mostly around swarmhost during HOTS … Or roach hydras but muta was never a main build order at the highest level of play because they were easily countered by good protoss.
On the other hand you don’t counter lings/banes/mutas with sentry blink lmao what are you even on ??? You forcefield he just runs away you have no energy gl with banes and lings against stalkers …
Let’s be real. Mutas were a free win in HotS for the Zerg. There wasn’t a counter. What are you smoking man? The only “counter” was to attack them before they got them. Given people only did all-ins or never teched, one might think o man, mutas sucked. No man… mutas gave you no choice.
Mutas hard countered anyone trying to go colossi or not do an all-in. Dealing with mutas is so much easier now, due to so many reasons, that… I still can’t believe it.
You must have missed the part about how top Zerg players were going mutas at Blizzcon. They were definitely the standard meta. I encourage you to watch jaedong versus SOS. They were literally in the BlizzCon finals and if you want a more recent example in 2015 you can see jaedong vs lilbow at blizzcon as well:
Cherry picking again mate… When people noticed how broken swarmhosts actually were (and before their rework in 2015) EVERYONE was going roach into swarmhosts into turtle late game.
I think there is an idea behind this unit in sc2, mutas are not supposed to go to a direct fight, they’re actually great in harassing, and in tvz, trust me, if terran is not expecting mutas, he is in a lot of trouble. In zvp maybe you’re right, phoenix are too good, but if protoss is going robo, you’re far ahead. Not all units are supposed to be good in fight, like banshee, reaper, adept and so on, and something I noticed, it’s quite stressfull to fight against and chase flying everywhere mutas, and as a terran, they don’t allow you to leave the base for quite some time
Your complaints about stuff countering things absurdly hard is a little too wide spread in this game. It makes some match ups a little too deterministic (sp?). Mutas were so good in BW because of the janky movement of units, now here they are virtually unchanged and they’re garbo because they lost that huge edge in mobility. Blizz should work to make them feel like they used to, maybe with a speed upgrade and a slight gas cost reduction? I think 75 is a fine cost if you were looking for a bandaid solution, but a speed upgrade would add so much value that 75 would be too little.
Swarm hosts didn’t appear until the end of heart the swarm and even at that there were still zergs doing muta styles in ZvP at blizzcon. Regardless, your claim that Phoenix are the only way to beat mutas is blatantly false.
Also, if you are going to cry cherry picking then you need to provide counter examples. Cherry-picking isn’t some magical statement that you throw out that magically invalidates opposing evidence. Cherry picking is a claim and you do in fact need to substantiate it just the same as any and every claim - just like how I have substantiated my claims with 3 video examples.