In the best-case scenario, Terran requires 3 minutes for widow mine drop to be possible.
Protoss detection is online at 2 minutes 40 seconds and Protoss guaranteed scouting at 2 minutes 31 seconds.
So Protoss have online tools to scout and defend against WM drops. So it’s Protoss fault if WM does game-ending damage.
Oh man, I remember that game. It’s the moment I went “You know, I kinda thought WMs were busted but I’m not very good so maybe I’m just being silly…but this…this is definitive proof imo that WMs are overpowered vs Protoss”. Back then the +shield damage was needed for Oracles though so I begrudgingly accepted it.
Now though? Oracles kinda suck unless you have 2-4 of them outside of Revelation usage. So WMs don’t need the +shield damage anymore. Especially if Charge gets nerfed.
By the time Terran has drilling claws, you can insta warp 20 supply into his main. Tradeoffs I guess.
That game Maru vs Dear , idk who has delusion that Dear was the best place in the world rofl, last year Dear was as bad as now, he hasn’t been best since 2014(2013) HotS…
The much better player won, I think that game of Maru was so good that I was learning from it but it partially worked because of the map. No one does it that much anywhere else.
Like complaining if Fantasy loses to top 3.
And even if they UNDO the permanent cloak of mine with claws so what… no pro has mentioned WM as problem.
Your mobile detection unit is literally the cheapest of all 3 races. While Zerg needs lair and terran needs starport w/ tech lab. Heck, you don’t even need an observatory anymore.
First of all that Maru vs Dear game wasnt last year. It was this year.
Second of all, I didn’t say he was the best overall protoss player. He had a strong argument for best PvT in the world at that time. He had an insane 21 series win streak against Terran in offline matches until his loss to maru…He was so good that he was the only protoss Pro to beat mass BCs. This was the same time stats was struggling in PvT, getting eliminated by cure in Ro32 for example.
Maru being the better player in general has nothing to do with that single game. Ignore the fact that Dear was the pinnacle of PvT at the time. Maru’s build was hard countered by Dear’s, Dear made far fewer mistakes than Maru, and Maru still won
Funny thing is that fantasy punches way above his weight in TvZ thanks to widow mines
It was buffed over a year ago.
And reduce the burrow time and cooldown of the shot by 67%. That’s right, it fires 3 times as often. Pretty good for 75/75.
Thanks, I already amended it with another comment further down.
It’s better than the siege tank or the liberator. I’d much rather lose 20 banelings to 1 widow mine shot than be out of position for 3 seconds and have liberators get in an unbreakable position and just having to GG.
Terrans do on average and that isn’t caused by the widow mine. TvZ is in turmoil right now due to the nydus, but if we put that aside Terran is systematically advantaged in almost every way. They have faster tech, better economy, better upgrades, and are on the offensive from square 1. Zerg is on the defensive from square 1, has the slowest tech progression in the game by far, and only can keep pace in economy with a flawless early/mid game defense (which is very hard due to the tech disadvantage), and is always behind in upgrades due to how incredibly expensive zerg anti-air and tech options are.
Terran can get a lead in almost any way - tech, upgrades, economy, etc - while zerg has only 1 way to get ahead and that’s economy and that only happens from a flawless early and mid game where you dodge every punch the terran throws while making the absolute minimum defense as possible (because every defensive unit made = dead drones).
Widow Mines can be a problem, not because zergs cannot deal with them, but because Zergs are systematically disadvantaged and cannot get out a sufficient quantity of the kinds of units that beat them. You can break mine contains like any other contain but that’s just a game of having more units which you can’t do when you are behind. You are always forced into a defensive posture while you buy time, and this gives them the ability to get fantastic positioning. Crushing fights is about having lots of units and hitting them with an attack from multiple angles out on the map. You can’t do that because you have to buy time, which requires backing up, which also forfeits your ability to do a surprise attack in a more favorable position out on the map.
Where is the downvote button?
Zerg need 2 minutes to get mobile detection.
Terran need 1minute and 32 seconds to get a scan.
And Protoss need 2,40.
Cost:
Overseer 50/50
Obs 25/75
Scan 240 (1mule)
Oracle 150/150
Reven 100/200
So both of you are wrong.
If youre considering scans as lost Mules you should consider observers as lost production time on the Robo (which is the most important production facility). Not saying its an even trade but in order to be fair you should mention this.
I’ve seen Fantasy played it relatively recently.
Results were exactly like you described.
He proxied Armory though.
What problems do photonic canons build near the mineral lane?
depending on gamestage it delays expansions, tech, pushes or upgrades but i am not protoss enough to judge those things but in most cases it seems “better safe than sorry” doesn’t apply to toss especially if like in that Playah he claims to knew it was a minedrop incoming
Terran can have a mule or a scan, not both.
Protoss production(Robo, stargate) can be queued and speed up making it much less of a burden.
losing 300 minerals early to deal with a potential widow mine drop is not a good way to win games. It puts your behind which means Terran can literally press T as they walk into your base with marines for a win.
A question I have is, is there a single Terran unit that is worse at harassing/doing economical damage than the oracle? Widow mines >>>> oracle. Liberator is probably the best “harass unit” in the game given it never stops being effective and always pays for itself, at a minimum. Bio drops > oracle. Ghosts…
I can’t think of anything Terran can do that would be a worse harass option than anything Toss can do, especially the oracle which basically exists to be a harass unit.
The tempest is going to have 10 range vs ground, as it does now, and 13 range vs air. Thor has 11 range. Cyclone has 15 range. Tank has 13 range. Liberator has 14 range with upgrade, 10 without.
We have zero harass options in comparison to Terran, and we only have 1 unit that compares to the range some of the Terran units have. Our ranged unit isn’t allowed to do damage cause its range is “too much.” Terran units get to do crazy high DPS plus having either the same range or more.
It’s f’ing crazy and you know what. No idea what they could do to make the matchup any more one sided.
Is there anything you won’t complain about?