Oh, wait, there isn’t any. That’s right. Well, great discussion.
Never in my life have I lost probes to vulture mines in BW when it wasn’t my fault or vice versa. Heck, I haven’t even lost probes to vultures when it wasn’t my fault.
In SC 2… for 75/75 you get to guarantee you will kill as many probes as will make your heart content. This is the funniest thing to be in the game ever. It’s 1a/1b with the previous invincible nydus.
In the name of consistency and balance… I’d like a 75/75 upgrade for the disruptor that allows you to simply click on a group of units and they all just f’ing explode. No need to even micro a nova or wait. That’s the drilling claw. Do that, and it’s cool. Thanks. Great game design.
How dumb does a person have to be to think hellbat drops needed to be fixed cause they were imbalanced but this is more fair/fine? "But… he had to get a 75/75 upgrade to kill a probe line, despite you knowing the drop was coming; having cannons; having detection; having dts and colossi, and just standing next to the mine before it dropped. Oh, also having phoenixes waiting to “pick up” something that doesn’t even allow you to.
How on earth can people like Artosis play BW and then commentate this game and not just be like wtf are you doing… I see why he still refuses to play SC 2, at least. My god. Someone needs to smack some sense into people, while still collecting the paycheck or else… no pro scene anyways.
Maybe give the oracle a 75/75 upgrade that allows it to become invincible for 10 seconds, so it can just fly over missile turrets and kill scvs. Now I’m thinking like a real Blizzard employee.
There are much more stupid units. SH is a deadly warrior or dead supply, Carrier with whole map leash range, Supersonic VoidRay (comming soon), Phoenix, Widow Meme… Or underpowered units as Mutalisk, Derpalisk, Trashsee, Viking, Reaper, Mighty Thoooor, Adept
The SH is obviously an obnoxious unit and single highhandedly made Snute the best non Korean via undeniable imbalance. But at least there’s “downsides now.”
To me, I can’t think of anything that has less counter play than drilling claw mine drops. Even disruptors work vs infestors, and it’s not until the highest level where Toss just doesn’t win.
I don’t understand why anyone would ever want harass to be so easy mode/guaranteed. They were even going to nerf the disruptor + warp prism combo, so you couldn’t drop a disruptor and then instantly shoot a ball out and kill workers. I actually wanted that and it makes sense.
If someone shoots a disruptor at your probes, you’re better off not trying to micro, as it will just cause you to lose more workers.
With drilling claws, you can’t even run away before the guy drops a mine. It makes ZERO SENSE. It so obviously makes zero sense lol. The only thing I can think of “we’ve deemed this mu so broken, that you’re required to lose your probes every minute.” Okay…
It is a bit silly that the mines can be borrowed almost an instant after they come out of the Medivac. I think it would be reasonable to consider putting the Burrow on a 1 second cooldown from the moment the mine is out of the Medivac. It would still be very difficult to defend but it could at least give a fighting chance.
Something has to give. If it can burrow super fast, it should at least have less range. You seriously can’t even run your probes away before the guy even drops the mine. It’s crazy what people don’t even bat an eye at, as long as it’s not a Toss unit/ability.
You have a medivac that is allowed to boost in a guy’s base at mock speed and then drop a mine that instantly burrows and is cloaked. It’s like… sure would be nice if the oracle or any other form of Toss harass was that good? On second thought, no – it wouldn’t. It would be unfair…
Two blatant wrongs don’t make a right. My bad. I’d rather the oracle be about as useless as it is now vs Terran than be the current mine drop.
Also faster Medivacs will make these drops even deadlier so they might have to address this in the near future. I’m not a fan of nerfing the range, Marine-Medivac-Mine vs Ling-Bane-Hydra will suffer from this.
They’re making medivacs faster? Wth? Everything is already too fast, if anything. Is this a balance team or “just find random non Toss things to buff team.” Every patch has to be christmas for Terran and Zerg regardless of balance. Nice con name. Fooled me for a few years at least.
Detection, map vision, having a few stalkers in place…
Medivac is an additional 100/100, and if you’re rushing it, the armoury is an additional cost on top of that. A standard mine-drop isn’t going to have drilling claws - in fact, in a lot of games, It’s not even researched because it’s not worth getting unless the protoss is going a chargelot based composition.
Seriously, you’re whining about this, of all things? Look, I know you want your free wins vs Terran back with the useless widow mine that essentially allowed you to mindlessly A-move through everything, but this is both petty and pathetic. It doesn’t take much, if any effort to deal with from a protoss’ point of view, as long as you don’t just jump your observer into the opponent’s base.
But maybe I’m expecting to much from someone who’s incapable of doing even a basic wall off properly.
Edit: In saying that, I highly disagree with making medivacs even faster - I don’t think it’s necessary.
Best advice ever regarding balance issues : switch to the race you think is the most imbalanced
Don’t like Widow Mines ? Select Terran and use them to kill your opponent.
Is Nydus Tunnel too much of a hassle ? Switch to Zerg and make the worms scream.
Tempest range too long ? Go Protoss and kill them from afar.
That and that unit/mechanic is obviously too overpowered and will surely break the game if not changed asap ? Overuse it until your opponents beg for mercy (or make them also switch to that race)
Second best advice ever regarding balance issues : balancing is made with top end players in mind, grandmasters level of play;
if a unit or mechanic seems broken to you, it is because you don’t have enough skill to use the counters to that unit/mechanic
This thread could not be any more warranted/with merit. I had an observer at the guy’s base. I knew he was going to mine drop. I knew where he was going to mine drop. I had phoenixes even shooting his medivac before he even entered my base.
I was just sitting there by a cannon, with colossi and dts… + phoenixes, right on top of the mine, yet it still gets to kill everything. It’s so stupid. There is no defending anything this ridiculous.
Just because a guy made a cheap mine, I’m supposed to run all my probes off my my mineral line before dude even gets in my base, and then I have to pray I can hide my probes in a corner so he can’t just drop them and instantly kill them. Going to have to split every probe and have them all be 50 feet apart, stretching to where my 5th base would be.
You can’t have harass options that are super cost effective even when your opponent takes no damage. Wth… Simply taking your probes off mining to avoid taking damage is more damage than the oracle does vs an undefended Terran base, where the guy just sits there and takes it. Come on man.
I see that’s what’s listed on liquipedia, but I’m just using the price that it shows in the replay of my last game. It’s 75/75 in the replay.
Good thing I’ve been GM since the dawn of time, I guess?
Don’t know why - that’s definitely not the case. Every ladder match I’ve had the upgrade has been 150/150.
That all depends on the time that such a drop hits. Unless the player is rushing the upgrade, which becomes quite expensive to do, and easy enough to abuse. Later on though, that’s a much different case, and you should absolutely have things in place to be able to deal with it.
I get your frustrations with this, but being frustrated doesn’t make it unbalanced.
In saying this, I do believe that Protoss needs some help in general right now.
He wants hots pvt back, when pvt was a walkover for toss, both Early and lategame
Remember it was obvious pvt was the most broken matchup, but the ppp kept denying it, among them Playa
I appreciate you not calling me a liar or what not. But, still, and for those who would… h ttps://ibb.co/64PMskx
I basically wrote a book saying why the meta is wrong in T vs P (making turrets in broodwar). The name of the game is defending threats cost effectively, while making your opponent spend more on defense than it cost you to produce the threat.
All it takes to win a game and snowball something is a minor inefficiency. This is an inherent imbalance, as far as I see it. Nothing you can really do to be cost effective. If the Terran is any good and simply keeps repeating this, in a manner that makes sense (some people get far ahead then still do stuff like doom drops…), then it’s their game to win every time, in my mind.
Umm. P vs T was 46% last period. The highest P vs T has ever really been is 55% during the blink stalker all-in era. I never used that build. I never said T vs P was broken, outside of the raven.
I thought P vs T was too easy, if anything. I remember being surprised, the blink era aside, Toss was 48% a lot of months vs Terran. It was the most balanced mu statistically, but it felt Toss favored. Then again, a lot of it was due to my build.
If only there were some sort of invisible spotter unit you could put on the map and it would have a mode with increased vision range that you wouldn’t select if you f2 you army and then all you’d need is some sort of short range teleportation unit that could hit air. Maybe it could deal additional damage to armored unit so it could kill the med more easily.
I m talking about hots and tvp was more like 45%back then, look at any code s between 2013 and 2015, we have 2 terran wins, both by innovation, most of those only have 1 ro8 terran which is maru
You kept saying terran VS protoss was fine, you never said it was easy,you even insulted the terran ‘whiners’ so pathetic
Guess it was the past so it doesnt matter, atleast according to you
You will probably say didnt happen, but i remember you
And velitey ofc, one of the most pathetic forum posters who also denied the obvious
Now he is saying bl infestors are fine, he didnt change
Atleast you admit the MU was busted
I wish i could make a highlight reel of mine hits against me…like you have to be so fast…and omg if they manage a mine into like a group of workers like being clicked back to a mineral patch…gg.
I don’t know if the matchup was busted as the stats NEVER EVER SUGGESTED THAT. The only thing that did well, statistically, was the blink stalker all-in. T vs P briefly reached 55% due to that one build. As soon as it was nerfed, it went back to 50% or even Terran favored (stats wise).
The build I was doing was simply the best macro build possible, on ladder. When you start every game ahead, it’s pretty nice. If you got ahead, Terran couldn’t win head on engagements vs Toss until they had MASS marauders and ghosts. If Toss macroed well, they could kill them before they ever reached that, though.
While it was laughably easy once you had colossi + storm, I just assumed the matchup was balanced via Terran being so mobile and being able to attack everywhere. Now that Terran can crush Toss in a million ways in LotV, I have no clue.
What really made Terran bad is the viking. It was a lose/lose proposition when Terran had to make them. Now? Vikings own all air and dunk on stalkers. There’s absolutely nothing weak about Terran atm in this mu. It’s all strong.
I’ve always just tried to call things what I think they are. I really don’t care if my race is good. If something is good, it’s good. Like the disruptor… it’s a crazy good unit. The tempest? Crazy bad unit.
Option A:
Stargate openers hardcounter it. Just keep a couple of Phoenixes on Medivac flight path.
Option B:
If you opened with Twilight or Robo, then put groups of Stalkers on Medivac flight path.
Option C:
Play 2 base all-in. If Terran invested so heavily into harass (and DC WM drop is a quite heavy investment) he will have almost nothing at home.
All of the above, of course, requires you to scout what Terran is doing. Quite an easy task to scout such an obvious build for a race with the best scouting tools.
Option D:
Just move probes away from mineral line and split them when you see incoming Medivac.
If Blizzard agrees to not all of the sudden “realize” the tempest is useless the second Terran has it, then yeah. Ofc… the dream of dreams.
As for the above. Like said before. Knew guy was going mine drop. Knew where he would drop. I had phoenixes hitting his medivac before it got to my main. I pulled my probes before it could drop in my main. I forget whether he killed any probes there or not, but he just went to my natural.
I had multiple colossi and dts right next to the mine being dropped, which was by a cannon, and it didn’t matter.
I can’t be asked to run around like a chicken with my head cut off pulling probes off mining left and right at every base cause some clown made a cheap freaking mine. In what world?
Balancing this matchup would be allowing the oracle to use stasis anywhere on the map and it traps every opponent unit/worker. It stasises… the whole map. 50 energy, but it’s cool. I have to get a 75/75 upgrade for it.
Once I can stasis the whole map every minute, don’t worry. Just scout I’m going oracle and send vikings to snipe it. That easy. The fun and interactive game play that embodies SC 2.
