Eh, they did and didn’t. If the Terran took a fight in the open. Especially on creep, yeah, Marauders didn’t do well. But off creep they could kite and with decent sim city, they wrecked Ultras.
My point is that instead of clearly needing to let the meta settle, Terrans whinged instead of adapting. Or rather, pros did. At dia, I saw people adapt. It was rare but lower league Terrans were learning to counter it.
It’s been meta for over 9 months, what are you talking about?
The earliest example I can find quickly is GSL 2019 Season 1 RO32, Cure vs Stats, Feb 08 where it was used twice in the BO3. A quick flick through the rest of the Terran games shows this strategy consistently being used all the way to Maru winning the finals. Terrans have been doing this all year.
Games from February don’t honestly look much different to now, Raven push, into bio/ghost/liberator/viking. The only difference is we saw a lot more pulling of the boys back then. That and Protoss are much better at defending these days, which you’d expect, since they’ve been playing against basically the same opening for 9 months.
Best post maybe ever.
I don’t remember Terrans complaining about the map pool. Just Blink and the Mothership Core. Fun fact though, Hallucination could replace the Mothership Core easily. It was almost completely the map pool’s fault.
I didn;t say I couldn;t execute the answers either, I just don’t main Terran so I don;t get a chance to practice the holds often but I still do get practice since I mostly play random.
I’m not saying all Terran pros are biased but a bunch certainly are and we have a lot of examples of this being true. So if you want to eat out of the butthole of pros with zero critical thinking involved, go ahead but I for one am not going to just lap up what someone says. Especially when we have people like SPECIAL who whinge about Observers.
Fast Colossus doesn’t shut down Bio Raven. Raven disables it with IM and then it’s gg.
Back during the Tankivac era, Terran were the absolute WORST for their idiocy and stubbornness, bio or die trying was a meme for a reason back then so Terran not winning until after the great Terran exodus made sense. Too many people were used to mashing MMM into any composition and winning because they had good micro. There was almost no variation to builds and no reason to field counters when bio beat everything.
Comparatively, now days, even if some Terrans are being idiots in the pro scene, Terran have dropped a huge part of the stubborness and it only comes out in rare instances.
Such as vs Chargelots. You can’t do a 2 base allin into Chargelots…but if you do, you need anti light or Ravens to increase your marine DPS.
Not to mention plenty of lost mining time.
Terran players only ever want to make bio to show their much skill(lol).
Anything terran can’t beat by spamming bio all game and showing much skill equals broken to them. So basically anything really.
Are we talking 3 rax reaper pocket build consistently or are we talking about a real meta build?
I remember seeing more Bio Mine or Bio Tank 2 base allins.
So if you did main terran you could execute these tactics and beat gsl level protosses, gotcha.
Never said pros arent biased, obviously they are all biased just like players some more than others.
Again you proven yourself with total lack of tvp meta game knowledge just like you think bio raven is new.
Again terran was not even doing as good as other races during tankivac era and the only terran doing amazing was probably byun and uthermal. Also what strategy are you talking about that was discovered better than mmm especially vs protoss since mech has been in and out of tvz meta for ages.
So youre saying all your nonsense of terrans losing only because of stubbornness is wrong or do you still think you understand the game better than the best terrans in the world who are cooperating with the best protoss and zergs to find strategies for all 3 races?
Again chargelots are getting nerfed because theyre overpowered in tvp, theres no reason to discuss this as its been confirmed already and its being changed.
TLDR youre still dillusional and no you dont understand the game better than top level terrans or even mid tier terrans considering you think mech is good vs toss as long as you get hellbats.
Terran players only play bio because its the only viable composition in the current meta and as far as tvp goes i cannot actually remember any moment where mech was better than bio outside before they made marauder attack a single hit instead of 2 and bio was just extremely bad.
February 8th, Bio/Mine/Raven. Check the vods yourself if you want, Raven openings are everywhere.
They are a little less refined than they are now, but the strategy was indeed new back in S1 GSL. Sometimes their are tanks, sometimes there are mines, but that is true even today. He takes his third around 7:00, something which again is fairly normal even now, just a push not an all in.
Look at Neeb vs uthermal from Nationwars (if I remember correctly) I think it was the latest example how you can do little to no damage. Ive done the same either some noob to lose 2/3 probes in a blast or another who knows how to defend where WM deal barely any damage.
But continue to claim how it’s unstoppable whiner.
You’ve yet to adequately address anything I’ve said. I gave you examples of how to counter chargelots as Terran, Chargelots are as imba as a mine drop when unprepared and as laughable as a mine drop when you’ve reacted perfectly.
So unless you can actually address my points, which you are reinforcing by being stubborn instead of thinking “Hmm. Maybe I should try some of these counters before flapping around.” then we’re done.
And I will rub it in your face when Terran completely wreck Protoss in a few days due to this awful patch pandering to biased Terran pros.
It was a stupid mechanic. The Medivac pickup was a gimmick to try to make underpowered Tanks relevant by allowing the player to skip the siege mode transition and rapidly reposition the Tank. This is a blatant violation of the Siege Tank’s intended design (that of a powerful long-range zone control unit balanced out by minimum range, friendly-fire, and a long siege transition), but it did not cause issues at the time because early LOTV Tanks were simply too underpowered to work properly.
To be blunt, mech was far from viable back then. The weakened Tank (which allowed Medivac pickup) and the weaker Cyclone were two factors that contributed to that.
The issue with chargelots is that protoss can hold any 2 base pushes from terran while taking a 3. + double forge and tech, so they get ahead in all 3 categories tech, army and economy.
The goal of nerfing chargelots is to force protoss into investing more into their defense therefore not getting so far ahead of terran.
Because they dont work at top level.
Youre actually sounding like you think zealot micro is demanding .
No they dont, wich is why the few times we see mech in pvt the terran tries to kite them with hellions not hellbats, also i think its pretty mutch confirmed hellions do better because mobility and the line splash is better.
Again a strategy that is not viable at top level wich is why we never see it.
Sure i give you this 1, if protoss attack you into a tiny choke point for some reason you can win.
What?
Again because they arent real counters at top level.
TLDR youre still wrong and none of your strategies work at top level.
Definitely agreed, back then mech kinda sucked. Cyclones, however, were monsters. I used to get 2 or 3 of them and fast +1 to shaft Roach play and Protoss in general. This was after they were reworked to not attack+move without lock-on but before the (new) rework that re-added attacking while moving.
Umm… Maybe because workers actually doesn’t activate vulture mines in SC1?..
People did vulture drops or “vulture run bys” all the time. Vultures kill probes fast, mines or no mines (people wall off with pylons to try to prevent losing probes to vultures). I also played as Terran; it was incredibly common to kill probes via mines (a dragoon or zealot setting off the mine near a worker line).
Interactions in BW were fair, for the most. SC 2 is the opposite. I never scouted something in BW and was like “omg… save me jesus. There’s nothing I can do.” That’s how it is when dealing with any form of Terran harass in SC 2.
I can’t fly an oracle ontop of a turret and 12 marines and kill anything besides my oracle. The Terran can do the equivalent of this with widow mines and kill your entire worker line and probably escape with the medivac, too.
It’s so patently stupid and has jack to do with strategy. There is no strategy/intelligence required when something is fail proof. There is equally no strategy and etc in regards to counter play when there is no freaking counter. It’s not a RTS game at that point. It’s just watching the 3 stooges and then acting like some skill/strategy just took place.
Why on earth would they make the medivac faster than it already is? Nothing about Terran makes any sense.
Definitely not mines. In SC1 even biological workers like drones doesn’t activate the spider mines.
Then you do mistakes but you said it’s never your fault. You said even when you play perfectly mines kills your workers so if you see vultures drop and placing mines in ur mineral line then you did a mistake by moving a zealot into the mine range causing all the probes to explode. That’s not a perfect play.
About widow mines SC2 drop counter play I guess cannon in the middle of the mineral line would help. Well placed obervers could spot incoming medivac drop aswell.
Really? Reaver drop is like 4x stronger than SC2 widow mine drop. Reaver one shot could like 10 SCV’s instantly and before you can react they will shot atleast two times more.
Yes. You can’t because different races are different. Terran has advantage in harass but for example when you hit 200/200 then you don’t even need keyboard anymore to win in PvT. 
I think Op is referring to the power a drilling claw drop has even when scouted compared to the resources invested to pull it off (both in resources and apm).
in my lowly diamond, a WM drop is still a pain to deal with even with preparation.
I agree with him that for such a cheap unit, that is easy to micro and pull off, its insane the damage it can do.
oh your engaging mid field and didnt see the mines incoming for the first 3 seconds, bam 40 probs dead in your main and natural.
protoss has nothing on that level that is that powerful for such a cheap unit/upgrade
like orcales need to be microed and can only kill about 12 scvs before going out of energy, and cost twice as much, and exist in a tech tree that has limited viability in early-mid game tvp
adepts can be walled off, dts … just die to anyone with half a brain
yeah drilling claws need to be nerfed, or the splash of wms needs to be nerfed (why was it ever + sheilds in the first place) to the point where you need two overlapping splashes to kill probes.
Cannon in the middle does nothing. This thread spawned after a guy dropped his mines on top of a cannon and colossi, yet still killed all of my probes. And, I knew he was going to drop me before he even picked up the mines (observer at his base).
Maybe if you’re a noob, like every Terran that plays SC 2 now. BW is really generous when it comes to avoiding damage vs reaver. You watch your mini map. You react instantly and the reaver shot nearly always duds. For all intents and purposes, the scarab simply has a range limit.
Very few times, either playing as Toss or Terran has it ever felt unfair. It’s actually remarkable how “just” that “bug” feels. I love it, from both perspectives. At a high level, it’s really more about how do you prevent the reaver from killing your units and simply being cost effective. You can always run scvs, but you can’t run units away from death.
Scoreboard looks like this: 1 million advantages for Terran… still searching for 1 for Toss. Maybe recall. And it’s more than being just about advantages. This is on the same level as the invincible nydus, where it’s simply wrong. It’s no where to be found in the realm of balance or strategy/interactive play. It’s simply bad and wrong.