High APM does not = more skill. I’ve been diamond for a long fricken time and yet I rarely ever go over 100 APM. But all my actions are extremely efficient. I don’t tab needlessly through buildings or units, I don’t spam click move/attack orders etc.
2 Likes
Fact denial isn’t a valid argument.
https://i.imgur.com/TJbuEs3.png
That doesn’t prove anything. If you’re a masters player you can limit your APM and still smash players that have 2-3x your apm.
1 Like
It proves that there is a strong correlation between apm & league which is proof APM is at a bare minimum a good indicator of skill. Sorry kid but the facts are the facts.
Sorry kid but your theory crafting aka “This is a way in which I could imagine you might be wrong” doesn’t refute hard facts that definitely prove this is true. “I imagined I am right, therefore I am” is trash and goes right into the garbage can.
1 Like
That claim is patently absurd. One would have to be a “complete fool” to believe it, and a liar to make that claim if they are not a complete fool.
Each faction (also splitting Bio and mech) primarily relies on units within certain supply ranges. This trend creates a solid APM discrepancy between the races that continues to hold as you increase the number of games specifically because “lower supply” units need to be produced in larger numbers to “match” the strength of “higher supply” units.
Bio mostly relies on units in the 1-2 supply range, with limited or occasional support from some 3-supply units and rare support from 6-supply units.
Mech relies entirely on units in the 2-6 supply range and requires a decent amount of 3-supply or 6-supply units in order to function; so its APM inflation is consistently lower than Bio.
Protoss mostly relies on 2-6 supply units with some heavy emphasis on 3/4/6 supply units for splash or specialized roles depending on the match-up.
Zerg mostly consists of 0.5 - 3 supply units until the end-game; where they will still produce 0.5 supply Zerglings for harassment and typically rely on a 2-4 (occasionally with some 6-supply Ultralisks) if they have abandoned Zergling/Baneling.
1 Like
No it isn’t. It’s literally a fundamental property of a large sample of random variables. Not understanding basic math != valid argument.
APM spam and other noise will average out to 0 with an adequately large sample. Anything that doesn’t average out & which corresponds with race is a material difference in APM requirements for that race. The facts are the facts kid. The math is 100% crystal clear in this scenario. We aren’t talking about rocket science here. We are talking about very basic math (sums, averages, etc).
1 Like
The cost and supply of units like Marines and Zealots randomly change between games, so the effects of APM inflation produced by production do not get canceled out.
Reading comprehension is your friend:
2 Likes
You clearly don’t understand the very topics you are trying to use to make your argument.
1 Like
- Grandmaster.
- Extensive background in math & computer science.
vs
- Forum troll who can’t understand basic sums.
- Platinum league.
Pro tip: only play the authority card if/when you actually are the authority.
2 Likes
Not relevant.
You clearly didn’t pay any attention in class.
1 Like
- Clearly understands the CLT and relevant principles
vs - Doesn’t understand basic sums.
APM has a very clear relationship with skill. It’s simply a fact. Come to terms with it and move on with your life:
https://i.imgur.com/TJbuEs3.png
3 Likes
You’re a waste of time. You point to alphastar beating Serral as proof that Protoss are fine against Zerg yet completely ignore the fact that Alphastar’s micro is pinpoint accurate and the never ending attention to split second win or lose actions is something humans cannot do. Watch Alphastar vs Serral game two, he pulls archons that are about to die and moves them to the backline while firing off disruptor blasts. Any professional protoss player that tried to use Alphastar’s strategies would get absolutely smashed because humans do not have the computational abilities nor the skill precision that a machine does. Humans cannot beat a stalker / immortal push with just stalkers, the precision and skill it requires is insane.
1 Like
Lmao. You’ve clearly never watched alphastar.
Oh dear! Requiring Protoss to multitask! THE HORROR! It’s almost like a Terran who has to siege and stim micro at the same time! OH NO NOT A FAIR GAME WHAT WILL WE DOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
1 Like
This was your claim:
That claim is clearly false; as you had to indirectly admit in the subsequent post by reiterating this:
You clearly aren’t willing to admit your own mistakes or the faults in your own arguments. You made the absurd claim that the APM inflation from production mechanics “cancels out based on sample size”, then had to deflect because you couldn’t defend that claim and still couldn’t admit that claim was wrong and absurd.
Moving back to the broader topic:
It does not take any more work to hold down the Z button for multiple Zerglings than it does to hold down the D button for multiple Marauders, the S button for multiple tanks, the I button for multiple Immortals, etc. Warpgate mechanics in particular may technically require a little more work because you have to select the location, but they will still generate less “APM” than the Zerglings because of the number of units being produced. This race-based APM inflation serves as proof that APM (even without spamming) is not an accurate indicator of skill.
Even if you could make the argument that APM and skill are related (which is practically impossible to do because precision of spells and unit placements is difficult to quantify and does not translate directly to APM in the way that rapid movement does); you would still have to quantify and factor out all of the production-based APM inflation before you could make any assessments based on APM between different races or even different compositions.
2 Likes
Again, not understanding basic mathematics != valid argument.
I have a “three strikes and you’re out” policy. You’re on strike two. One more and I block.
1 Like
Again, the metric you are using is fundamentally flawed. You are unable to account for production-based APM inflation; and you don’t even have the ability to argue about that point without lying or deflecting.
Anyone can look at the chain of posts; which I included in the very post you just responded to, and see your dishonesty.
1 Like
Measuring that “inflation” is literally the point. I will reiterate what I’ve said before:
1 Like
Simply having cheaper and lower-supply units inflates APM, but it does not make a race more difficult.
Unless you can accurately quantify that inflation and factor it out when making comparisons between different factions and playstyles, any comparison you make between factions and playstyles on the basis of APM will be invalid–Conversely, comparisons between two players using the same faction and playstyle may be valid if players are not explicitly spamming or don’t have a significant difference in precision where it matters that overrides that difference.
APM comparisons also fail in cases where a case requires precision or positioning over repetitive input. In those cases APM is a misleading metric.
1 Like
Let’s make your statement less biased:
An action must be spent to create each unit; having to make more units requires more APM. Using more APM is more difficult than using less APM; making more units is more difficult than fewer units.
2 Likes