How do you explain that a random player having the same skill then has different APM for each race?, or having more apm and then having the same performance as with lower apm?.
3 Likes
It is funny that this trolls think of himself as “legitimate criticizer”…
From this BS, one is tempted to think that the troll is a prepubescent boy that has the attention-span of a chicken.
Chess is a game that can last 8 hours, this troll can’t concentrate for 18 minutes.
Yea, take a well-balanced Random Player in M1. He has 300APM as Zerg, 250APM as terran and 200APM as Protoss.
The crazed troll will try to convince us that the Random is More skilled as Zerg, then as Terran and at last as Protoss.
2 Likes
One just need to look at known high level random players, search for winter and vibe on sc2replaystats and if you see the replays their APM is all over the place, they can spam more with Z, but when they play P or T spam less, then other games they spam like Z while playing Protoss…all of that with the same skill.
The protoss race require less spam and more precise actions, that’s all, still, a top protoss player will have around 300, you won’t see them with 100apm.
2 Likes
Protoss have been designed as a simplistic straight froward race with durable units.
If you take a look at Orcs in Warcraft 3 you will see some general similarities.
That does not mean they should be weaker than other races - but it does mean that with less effort/risk you will get better results.
I have seen a few M/GM zerg players consistently put some serious effort into 1v1 matches - and then later switch to protoss (few games for fun) and face similar (or even the same) opponents and have a much chiller time and even interact with their chat during the 1v1 match.
Protoss has no straining macro mechanics and their armies do great in direct frontal assaults (deathball style) mostly favoring attack-move while sending a zealot squad to enemy expo on the other side of the map.
The few Protoss units that require some skill generally have a simpler/easier alternative that is not as difficult to use.
Protoss also have some really phenomenal mix of ranged and melee/short ranged units along with the best casters so generally speaking they do not have a literal weakenss - aside from being unable to heal the health of their units.
2 Likes
Oh, hi batz. I know you are slow, but try reading my comment one more time, please. Also, APM and balance mean sh_t, there were times Protoss had lower GM representation, the APM of players did not change.
If you are looking at a Protoss GM that plays standard meta you’ll see normal APM but if you see the same player playing Stargate Phoenix you’ll see inflated APM because Phoenix can spam spells and spam rightclicks on the map due to map presence that only Stargate offers.
About the GM inflation it’s a clear cheese problem, cheese on Protoss is stronger and easier to execute than to the opponent to defend. There were times Protoss were far stronger in the mid game, specialy in the lategame and the GM representation wasn’t as high. Protoss got 2 years of straight up heavy nerfs and only recently buffs on VR, just guess.
2 Likes
Actually that’s completely false. Lmao. The apm of Protoss went up in GM because the lowest tier of Protoss were kicked to masters. That’s part of the reason why Zerg’s average APM is off the charts in GM.
That’s a possible explanation but I highly doubt it. These problems started when the infestor / brood were nerfed and then kicked into overdrive when the shield battery & void ray were buffed. That’s very clear from the rank history of GM/Masters.
Zerg late game can’t hold a candle to Protoss and that was balanced by Zerg having a midgame advantage. The shield battery and void ray completely remove Zerg’s mid game advantage in fact it’s probably Protoss favored now.
So without the old infestor/brood zerg can’t win late game and now with shield batter + voids it’s impossible to stop protoss from reaching the late game.
3 Likes
Do you have any history of data of “average APM of GM Protoss players”? Or you are just talking out of your 4ss?
Yes. More specifically, the “nerfs” to the Void Ray, Shield Battery, Feedback Range, etc. And the “buffs” to Infested Terran which removed it for the most useful spell in the game, Microbial Shroud. Not to mention the nerfs MASSIVE buffs to the Raven which saw it being replaced as the single most useful spell caster in the game!
3 Likes
Can you not read?
…
1 Like
Hmm, using a clown face huh, a forum veteran indeed. A guy who post walls of texts and hates lowko, I wonder who this could be?
2 Likes
what.
Still no data. Also, I already told you why Zerg naturaly have more APM in general, even in pro players games, this is a known fact that is constantly mention even by casters during games, I’m not making that up.
Also, this is how I know you are batz by the way, your lack of brainpower for interpretation of texts, bad writing coherence and too big of an ego.
4 Likes
Cool dude, why do you think that is the case?
(It’s a darn strategy game after all, not a game for finger exercises.)
1 Like
- Is presented data.
- Says there is no data.
Sorry pal but lying only gets you blocked.
1 Like
do u know whats funny?
remember infestors era? protoss need to allin from 2/3 bases or he will lose in late game. and due to queens its impossible to stop zerg from reaching the late game
if u think that in infestors era pvz was balanced - its balanced same way now.
3 Likes
And what is even more funny is that SB don’t attack and don’t move, unlike those Queens that survive even a Disruptor Shot.
Already addressed in my post over here. What’s new? Taking selective data then claiming whatever you want to claim. 
Topic #2 - I need to do so many things more than the opponent to win.
================================================================================
I’m sorry, where did you present that data? I can’t see anywhere.
With the difference that the transition to lategame Carriers is still fragile for the Protoss due to Zerg cost efficiency while Winfestor games were completely unwinnable.
1 Like
A decent junk of APM is just inflation from production mechanics.
Terran Bio and Zerg are more likely to make 1-2 supply units or (batches in the case of Zerglings) than Protoss or Terran mech. That produces a significant amount of extra APM such that even if someone playing Protoss or Terran mech did give just as many actual commands to their units they would still have lower APM than the other player.
Other factors such as the number of physical units, their speed, their spells, etc may also limit or increase EPM without necessarily affecting the race’s difficulty.
2 Likes
Which average out to zero with an adequately sized sample, which is what we have.