No, i must apologise for the harsh-tone of my replies. Though i stand by the substance of my posts, my tone was uncalled-for. It is just a single sentence that initiates the Escalation, you have the merit of extracting voluntary an apology from one of the most short-tempered guys here…
Again, my apologies.
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Terrans in 2016
OMAGAD PROTOSS OP NERF NERF NERF NERF PLS BRING BACK OLD CHRONO LOOK PROTOSS DONT NEED TO CARE ABOUT THEIR CHRONO ANYMORE LOOK WE NEED TO PRESS MULES EVERY 60 SECOND !!! MACRO HERE GIVE PROTOSS MACRO MECHANICS
Terrans in 2017 :
OMAGAD PROTOSS GOT THEIR TIMING ATTACKS BACK HELP BLAZORD PLS HEEEEEEEEEELP WE CREATED THIS SITUATION PLS REVEERT OMAGAAAAAAAD
Also terrans in 2016 :
NERF PROTOSS FFS LOOK I GOT KILLED BY A PYLON SHOOTING MY SUPPLIES UNDER MY RAMP AND ITS SO OP NERF GET RID OF THIS UNIT I CANT DROP IN THE MIDGAME NEERRF
Also terrans in 2017 :
BLAZORD WAT THE F*CK I CANT KILL PROBES WITHOUT HAVING TO FOCUS FIRE WHEN I DROP ALSO I CANT KILL UNITS BECAUSE I CANT FOCUS FIRE
ON TOP OF THAT I NEED TO BUILD A BUNKER TO BE SAFE AGAINST PROTOSS EARLY ON WTF IS THIS ? MARINES CANT KILL STALKERS ??? THIS HAS GOTTA BE A BUG NERFFFFF
Terrans in 2016 :
OMAGAD BLAZORD WTF IS THIS RANGED UNIT 15 GROUND RANGE !!! 15 ANTI AIR I CANT KILL IT NERF PLS NERF MY MARINES CANT KILL IT HOW CAN I KILL IT ???
Also Terrans in 2017 :
OMAGAD BLAZORD WTF YOU NERFED IT BUT IT WASNT ENOUGH I CANT KILL TEMPEST WITH JUST TWO VIKINGS ??? NERF OMAGAD PLS NERF THE UNIT HAS 8 RANGE ITS STILL TOO MUCH NERFFFFFF blizzard buffs the tempest because its trash OMY GOD WTF BLIZ HATES TERRAN PROTOSS BIAS ALWAYS OP IM LEAVING meanwhile Maru wins all the tournaments OMAGAD BLIZZ DONT NURF ITS ONLY ONE PLAYER LOOK ONLY ONE PLAYER CAN WIN BUFF BUFF BUFF PLLSSS
Meanwhile Protoss in 2015-2016-2017 when their race is trash and they have the lowest race representations in the entire history of the game, get sh1t on in every match up
Guys ? Can you fix it ? No? Okay guess we’ll wait for next patch.
Meanwhile Zerg who cannot win a single tournament in korea because the race doesn’t have potential at korean level :
Guys ? Would you like to do something about the fact that zerg cannot win in GSL ? We’ve been waiting for almost 3 years now…
Meanwhile the terrans on the forums :
OMAGAD LOOK SERRAL WON AGAIN IN WCS WTF NERF ZERG ALWAYS THE ZERG GETS BUFFS AND WE GET BUFFED AS WELL BUT NOT ENOUGH sees blizzard balance employee YOU TARD throws poop at the blizzard employee WE NEED BUFFS I BET YOU PLAY PROTOSS YOU WANT FREE WINS ON LADDER IF I DIDNT PLAY TERRAN AND PLAYED Z OR P ID BE GM LOOK AT ME IM GONNA WIN GSL
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Lol, lol, lol, lol. You made my day developing a short and partial history…
Do you remember that hilarious moment that whineterrans were rioting because a Blazord employee dared to wear a shirt with a …Pylon?
That was the hair that broke the camel’s back!
Whineterrans had the “smoking gun” of the BLAZORD Protoss-conspiracy!
Excellent post.
Keep up the good work!
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Yet you have alt accounts to make incoherent and nonsensical whine. Marus dominance was in 2018 by the way.
Was it not 2 weeks after that famous whineterran - Special lacrimated profusely on camera that the Raven (30 insta-damage) was so useless that no sane terran would ever build one?
Too bad that Maru did not follow his “advice” and proceeded to exterminate Protoss and Zerg 200/200 deathballs in a matter of seconds?
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Yes the person known for using PDD against protoss the self proclaimed raven master. It put a stop to haemorrhaging units against tempests and also meant that you could nullify stalker collosus comps. He’s also known for auto-turret harass against Z and P if they don’t open up stargate/spire which was really popular in 2017 when they could 2 shot workers. Big surprise when they brought it back he’s using it again, even with 1 less range and less damage. I guess he had to spell it out to you in a long essay that he prefers one design over another. Oh, but don’t you want both versions of the disruptor which is asking the same?
Disruptor? Yes it’s true!
HT? Mmmhh…
Colossus? Naaaahhhh
As a zerg who struggles against Protoss, nothing Stats did was OP. He had amazing multi tasking to manage all his spell casters to do constant harass while pushing with Immortal Sentry. He macro’d behind his pushes really well and neither Serral nor Solar was able to keep up with it until he slipped up. The build he used is incredibly strong but only if you have the micro and macro to back it up. As sad as I was to watch Solar buckle under Stats so utterly, it’s an amazing feat of skill to pull that off back to back to back to back. It’s going to be interesting learning how to counter this build.
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High level Terran players can do that. And, after they do that, the terran army comes back and the Protoss army, including the then sitting duck disruptors and HTs, evaporates.
Not to mention the fact that it is far harder to manage 6+ disruptors on top of high templars than it is to split some stim bio off and have the rest run away under the protection of liberators, tanks, widow mines, and medivacs.
Bane runby requires more skill than a widow mine drop. It also costs more than a widow mine drop
Youre acting like zerg and protoss don’t have more difficult micro than Terran
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I don’t think it’s a problem.
I don’t want the game balanced around players under M1.
I don’t want the game balanced around someone like me.
That metagame is irrelevant. You can do anything. Maybe low diamond players dont have the ability to split, but on the other hand, low diamond Protoss players dont have skills required to destroy turtling into 200/200 terran mech → BC.
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Yes, different races have different learning curves and different walls to hit where players either stagnate or improve. It’s almost like this game has asymmetric balance and players should play races they have fun with rather than the race they feel they must prove themselves with. In other words, if you play Terran (or any other race for that matter), whine about it being the hardest, but go all “BUT MUH HONOR” when people suggest playing the race(s) you’re complaining about: You’re the problem, not balance.
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If a high level terran player can do that why shouldn’t a high level protoss player be expected to do the same thing? Again, we come to the crux of the issue; “rules for thee and not for me”.
You definitely don’t understand how a terran army works then. Or how the general AI works either.
Sorry? In what way is running 6 or even 8 banes in more expensive or micro intensive than a widow mine drop?
You literally tag them into another control group, right click then around the minimap and attack move them into your opponent’s mineral line.
Widow mine drop is exactly the same thing except with the added task of actually dropping the units in and burrowing the widow mines in your opponent’s mineral line. Its a small thing, but it is an extra action that needs to be taken into account.
As for cost, its just as expensive to do a widow mine drop rather than a bane runby.
4 widow mines plus a medivac costs 400/200 (4 widow mines is 300/100. 1 medivac is 100/100.)
8 banes is 400 minerals 200 gas. If you use anything less than 8 banes, its actually cheaper. A full mineral line wipe only takes 4 banes. Less if they are clumped up.
Bane drops are actually cheaper at 325/125 (4 banes plus an overlord with drop morph) and takes even less effort.
If you’re using more banes you aren’t going for a runby, you’re attempting to wipe the entire base.
I didn’t realise that flanking your opponent with pre-positioned units was difficult to do.
I know toss has some difficult army control with managing disruptors or storms (rarely do we see both because they fill much the same role), but realistically speaking, it’s no harder than what a terran has to do with their setup as well as managing ghosts and splitting, kiting and focus firing after taking into account what mines do to even the playing field.
Zerg army control doesn’t really get difficult until you start adding infestors and vipers into the mix. Outside of this, it’s literally all about flanking, engaging on creep and baiting mines. No mines, no micro required at all in TvZ.
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I think everyone is forgetting the point here. What makes Terran so difficult is not that its more micro intensive, its the unforgiving nature of the race when a unit is mis micro’d or missing a macro production cycle. The problem is for terran to be effective it requires much more APM because most units are low HP, high damage - range units. The potential of damage for bio is high if micro’d correctly IE splitting and stutter stepping and because the Terran arsenal is mostly range it requires high APM to be effective.
Low HP is a factor to take into account. Although these units are high damage high dps, the downside is they are low HP. If one disruptor shot hits an marine or marauder ball without micro about 10 supply is lost instantly and this effect exponentially increases as unit numbers on both sides go up because of the nature of sc2 units clumping. Same goes for other protoss AOE.
Let’s take storm vs EMP. One good storm can kill all marines in a bioball if not split correctly. EMP can at a maximum do 50% damage to protoss gateway units. While storm can do about 65% or more damage to a Terran bio army. A good protoss will blanket the whole field with Storms including escape routes. Although Terran can do the same with EMP the damage with storm is additive and can kill a ball while EMP cannot damage HP once shields are down.
While terran is microing his little heart out let’s look at the macro mechanics of the race. Specifically Barracks production vs Gateway production. A Rax production requires the terran to train a unit and after X amount of time Y unit finishes and pops out of rax. Much similar to a protoss’ robo, stargate and nexus’ production. Now the next production cycle of a unit cannot start until a Terran trains another unit AFTER x amount of time of completion of Y unit. So if the Terran does not queue up another round of production while microing in a battle the efficiency of macro for terran is lost (this happens with low Eco or lack of APM).
For protoss gateway units after Y unit is warped in, the cd for training a unit is automatically refreshed. Meaning Protoss does not have to spend time monitoring or the APM for trying to manage their production cycles right after units complete training. This gives protoss more APM and attention to use during fights. I am not accounting for other macro features such as a chronoboost which speeds up production and select all warpgates hotkey. This makes reinforcement easier for the protoss race since they don’t have to monitor when a production cycle finishes during a fight.
Both macro and micro features of Terran become very unforgiving if any actions are not performed in a effective timely manner. And because of the demanding APM of the Terran race both micro and macro wise most Terrans argue that the difficulty is much higher hence why there is a high skill ceiling for the terran race.
In fact blizzard made protoss macro mechanics easier with the warpgate upgrade automatically changing all gateways to WG. giving more APM to the micro side for the race.
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If Blizzard just removed Terran completely, they’d solve these problems forever.
SC2 without terran would just feel wrong.
Besides that, most issues seem to lie with protoss, do they not?
Was there all this whine around 1v1 during BW?
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A life-quality buff for terran would be a “all military buildings” so you automatically group all barracks, starports and factories like a f2 for buildings.
That would save time and keys slots.
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Relative to Terrans buildings, I don’t get why there is no an option to remove a waypoint from a production building. This should come in hand when the enemy get on your production and you have to target an enemy or a building which is getting destroyed to remove the aforesaid waypoints. Is this a bad idea?
if you watch GSL season 2, all in the quarterfinals - most of the players were protoss. Only 1 terran and 1 zerg left. If you watch the weekend tournaments, top protoss will always take out Maru. Stats and SOS took out Maru easily at GSL Vs the World and at Blizzcon. As to why there hasn’t been a Protoss champ recently? It’s not that Protoss isn’t favoured in general vs Terran - it’s that they are BOTH underpowered against Zerg in the late game. So Season 2 of GSL should have had a Protoss champion; the numbers were all there - but there was one Zerg left and the Zerg late game is almost unbeatable.
If you look at Time (whom Maru easily beat) - he did well against Zerg in the early and mid game. But late game against a mid level Elazer, Terran finds it hard to close the game. It would have been a very different result if Time had to play any korean Protoss. That’s the hardest match up at the early and mid game level.
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agreed.
Stats was able to play at the maximum edge of the envelope to win against Serral and Solar.
He deserves the win precisely because it’s so difficult to do. Would you consider the P V Z match up is for Protoss to win it, and for Zerg to not lose it? I.e. the burden is shifted on the Protoss (or Terran for that matter) to kill the Zerg before they get to late game. It may be that this is the meta narrative of the game design (that of Zerg being overwhelming), but in it’s current form, Zerg is almost unbeatable in the late game vs either Protoss or Terran. TY tried twice in Homestory Cup vs Serral. Not even close.
One way of looking at it is - Zerg vs Zerg is more volatile compared to Zerg vs other races at the highest levels. Consider Serral lost to Soo (Zerg) at Blizzcon, lost to Reynor (Zerg) at WCS Summer, and even Elazer (whom i’m sure Maru, Stats, Classic, TY or even Fantasy can beat at GSL VS the World) - because he is Zerg, he can make a good run at Serral. The other races just can’t beat Serral’s Zerg late game due to the combination of Infestors (Spell), Vipers (Spell), Brood Lords (Seige).
To belabour the point: Maru or Special can respectievly beat Reynor either very easily (WESG China) or fairly competently (GSL Vs the World) - but won’t have the same outcomes against Serral. However Reynor can have a fair chance at beating Serral, and did so at WCS Summer. So Top Terran vs Top Zerg (very hard), mid Zerg/high Zerg vs Top Zerg (possible and doable).
Serral’s rise (whilst deserved) parallel’s the nerf to Terran Ravens (Missile). Once Terran lost that AOE Spell, they lost the ability to break Zerg’s late game Seige. Protoss fared slightly better as they still had high templars with AOE, but it was still very difficult.
So to summarise - unless Blizzard wants the meta to stay in it’s current form where both Terran and Protoss are racing to kill Zerg before they get to the late game… it feels unbalanced from the game design and narrative perspective.
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