As was already discussed before, “Dead of night” is cancerous tumor of co-op. Because it gives thousands of noobs an option to play SimCity but get 50000 points like they play Stracraft.
On and on there goes a senseless argument - “You focus on attack, I take def. Hey, these are equal roles, def is not less important”.
I have one thing to say. If that was equal role of same difficulty you would never ever hold it so persistently. It is so tempting only because it is a justified carriage. Nuff said.
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Are you saying the role of attacker is any harder in this scenario? DoN is a pretty easy map all things considered…
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I don’t care if you say “I’ll def”… as long as you actually defend our base. That means you deal with incoming hunterlings, regardless of whose mineral line they dive into. It means you can handle spotters disabling your static defenses and chokers grabbing your hero. It means I can focus entirely on taking out structures and the bonus, confident that our base is secure.
If you take care of all that, I consider that you have done your fair share of the work. But don’t say “I’ll def” if I’m going to have to rush back home and shore up your crumbling defenses.
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The map is fine.
I don’t mind if my partner defend while I focus on attack. This is a common strategy among people in DoN.
If they want ‘carry’ then just carry them.
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Yep, go full units as you can both attack and defend with them. With turrets you cannot attack.
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I love this map, but I hate defending, I prefer attacking, even at night, so I am really happy when I have a teammates that can take care of all def!
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I might add that my complaint above is more general: If you commit to do something, friggin’ do it.
The other day I had a guy on Oblivion Express say “I’ll take the bottom track.” Mind you, the hardest train on OE is the very first one, simply because you have so few units at that point, and it comes on the top track. And it’s a dumb way to approach OE anyway, instead of both players focusing fire. But fine: I laid down a couple infested bunkers, popped an Apocalisk, and took the first train solo.
Second train comes. I’m working on building out upgrades and structures, making a point of not reinforcing the lower track, but I keep an eye on it. I see no allied units down there. Finally, when the train is halfway across the map, the dude calls down the Hyperion. The Hyperion is good for many things, but soloing objectives is not one of them, and I don’t think he was even using the yamato cannon. I watch the train rolling by while the Hyperion’s lasers tickle its roof. Finally I have to call down the Aleksander to finish it off.
This was par for the course the rest of the mission.
I don’t mind carrying a weak partner, that’s kind of part of the package in Coop, but I really hate partners who say they’re going to do something and then don’t follow through.
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I’ve actually always found the second train to be the hardest, because it has quite a big increase in health compared to the first train and available forces that you may have at that point. For the first one you usually have some calldown available, or some hero able to solo it, so you rarely absolutely need regular units besides those.
The second one however, is far harder to solo with most heroes, and depending on who you play you may or may not have a calldown ready.
unless you are doing a mutation with some particular hinderences involved, you really dont need somebody to defend and its just a waste of time and makes the mission take longer. instead of clearing everything by the 3rd night you’ll have to wait till like the 5th or 6th night instead because of your simcity ally.
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I don’t mind when an ally wants to defend on DoN as long as they actually do it, including my mineral line. It let’s me spend more on units for faster clearing.
And as long as they do defend properly, I don’t consider it carrying.
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You’ve got it, so long as they can actually defend on their own, attacking day and night is a simple task. Depending on the CO I’m using and the skills of my partner, it’s quite possibly faster than if we both took both tasks.
Defending in day time is not effective cuz there’s nothing to defend.
Attacking in night time is not effective because you mostly attacking additional zombies and hybrids which just spawn.
That is why different roles plan is so bad.
Hero zeers disable every damn cannon you have.
That is why defin with cannons is also a bad plan.
So. Math says the best option is when both make units, both def and both attack. Nothing personal.
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Maybe he meant the bonus bottom track lol.
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It’s rarely the optimal strategy, but it’s a perfectly viable strategy. That’s good enough for me.
And if I haven’t had to devote any resources to base defense, and it’s into the 5th or 6th night and the map is still not cleared… that’s the point where I stop criticizing anybody else’s play and start working on improving my own.
It’s hardly every cannon, it only becomes several when they are allowed to group up. As long as the defender takes care of them properly, they are not an issue. Plus, Spotters don’t appear on every playthrough so it’s not consistent problem.
I can’t say what your play style is or who you’re teaming up with, but both myself and many of my allies have torn through the infested at night. Personally, I bring AOE on infested maps which rips through units and structures at the same time.
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It doesn’t even depend on skill. It’s about numbers. The more you fight at night, the more enemies you spawn. I don’t say you can’t kill buildings at all, but your fire power is severely reduced because enemies tank damage on themselves.
I mean, if youre playing like mass slayer Alarak or something, then yeah it becomes a struggle because you dont have much splash. That doesnt mean you cant clear at night though, you just need more than it takes during the day.
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Dead on Night is okay cuz you have to attack and the other can just defend or go along with you, but Oblivion Exress you just take the expo and deal with trains and attack waves, only “need to attack bases” if you’re Mengsk/Dehaka/Abathur as they need to kill stuff to scale or you really like spawn camping, but it’s not that necessary.
When the ally says “I’ll take bottom lane” on oblivion express without even playing on mutations, pretty much says he’s bad at the game already, this kind of comment is only important for double trains and even then, the top train and it’s escorts comes to the defensive area before the bottom train, if the top train is ignored the escorts can destroy your base expansion.
If you have the buildings within your vision and you’re not using melee units, select a few units to focus fire on buildings cuz on A-move they won’t destroy the building thanks to zombies taking the aggro priority, only worry about aberrations and unique enemies cuz they hit hard.
Naturally it’s not as easy as it is during the day, but if you use a build with good crowd control you can get quite a bit done at night. Splash or high fire rate dps do the job quite nicely.
Really, give it a shot some time the next time you get a competent “I’ll def” type, personally I’ve found it quite fun doing it with Marine/Medic as Raynor.
That is very true.
The best way to defense is to keep the rock alive, but most “I Def” players just build canon/turret behind the rock.
Fighting outside at night can’t kill many building.
At night, it is better to use cloaked/flying units to dodge enemies and snipe buildings.
Not many commanders have such kind of units.
And that need careful micro.
The first 2 nights, any commanders should build army.
A few canon/turret + your army will be enough to hold.
If somehow, there are still have big part of the building not cleared by the 3rd night. Then both players should come back to defense after finished the bonus (If the commander’s army can’t kill building fast at daytime, it just even much harder at night, so go back to defense is a better option).
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