Co-op bugs and inconveniences

Co-op Missions Discussion
1

Co-op menu:

  • The progress bar works totally wrong. If you have 150.000 points for next level the bar must show 3/4, right? But it doesn’t. If the bar is nearly full this must mean you only need few points, right? Nope. Check the progress bar, seriously, it doesn’t show things right.

Common gameplay:

  • When one player leaves, the other doesn’t get his top bar. Some commanders just don’t have it (Kerrigan, Zagara), the hero itself has the abilities menu. But some commanders strongly rely on top bar, they can’t use their best stuff without it. Make something that the solo player could get the 2nd top bar. Not that big and beautiful, this will look stupid. Just 3-4 buttons in the corner.

All zergs:

  • Newborn units often stuck between buildings if they created close. Make units path away from there.

  • Give hatcheries 3rd rally point for overlords. Especially needed for Stukov whos selection doesn’t change to cocoons automatically so you can’t just pre-click them to move away.

All protoss:

  • Make all stalkers of all commanders stack their blink ability. When we solo we have to blink separately which is not right.

Stukov:

  • Make the rally pointing silent for ally. It annoys when used too much by noobs who think they can stutter step this way.

Stetmann:

  • Stettellites don’t effect burrowed units.

  • In Scythe of Amon victory scene Stetmann uses for bombardment the regular scourges, not mecha ones.

  • Unlocking Gary Prime only at lvl 15 is a mistake. Level 15 ability was always smth of a good bonus but not a game changing thing. Any hero is more or less good without lvl 15, but non-prime Gary is obviously not.

  • Player color is orange. We already have orange Swann and Fenix. I understand there are 17 commanders already but you have 16 colors (if i’m not mistaken) for 4x4 custom maps. Why don’t you use white, black, teal for someone?

  • Unbalanced resources. Stetmann harvests too much minerals because his workers move very fast but he is pretty low on gas. This leads to a situation he always has 5-10 k min and 0 gas. This automatically means most of his army is lings. I don’t say “Give me 5 k gas aswell”. But there needs smth to balance resources a bit and this is what I suggest. In many strategies we can CHANGE one resources to others. Give us this thing. Ability to change 5 minerals to 1 gas for example (in Lair or in Gary’s building may be). Not OP and very easy fixing of the situation.

  • His gameplay is making statellites. You wrote you wanted to combine creep and psy-field but it doesn’t provide psy-field for protoss ally, nor creep for zerg buildings… So what is the combination? And both of these things were never something which your units get wrecked without. Spamming the entire map with them is not fun, it’s not fight gameplay or ability management gameplay, it’s repetitive spamming gameplay! I don’t feel pleasure from this. I could spend some time for making roads of them BUT! each module takes 2 seconds to deploy, u cant just shift-click to make the road and go for real deals, you have to click-wait-click-wait-click-waaaaait-click-WAAAAIT. I don’t want to wait, I don’t want to spam! It’s borring! I want to fight, ok? This is what I suggest:

– modules can be placed anywhere and give 20-30% wider field

– this field grows from dot to full size like creep, may be a bit faster

– they cost some money, have longer recharge

– they have some life amount so they don’t die from one shot, but if destroyed - they really RIP

– protoss and zerg allies can build and warp on their field

– and the main thing - they put their effect on units for some time, this means that unit will run fast or heal some time after it leaves the area

This way they don’t become OP, they now don’t provide too much vision, can be destroyed, require money, take some time to spread field but they now really do the creep/psy job and they provide their main functions without need of crazy coverage, you only deploy them on bases and battlefield. You don’t need to spam a full road, now unit can run fast from one module to another аs effect stays for 2-3 seconds.

Vorazun:

  • Skins, guys. For buildings and probes. Thank you for the console, but skins are missing. You have them long ago, you didn’t use them for Zeratul, I don’t see why you not giving them.

Karax:

  • How long ago did you play him going units? He is very low, guys. One group of his mastery must be totally spent just to make his units cost usual. They are not OP, they are pretty usual, and even with standard unit cost he still needs much effort to make a fine army. Because many buildings, many upgrades, many pylons… Yes, his top bar is probably the best but when the energy is over you often stay with low army which doesn’t hold the blow.

  • Also there is no ground to air attack (sentries don’t count, immortals don’t have enough shots). There are many ways to solve this:

– Give zealots an upgrade to attack air with another weapon

– Give him adepts or dragoons. Or vindicators (pretty famous fan unit from LotV beta times)

– Give special kind of dragoons which can only attack air (this would be a unique mechanic btw), produced in robo

Alarak:

  • He is the lowest on units. He has only 2 real gameplays: robo or templars. He has less units than even Raynor or Kerrigan, who are free commanders. There is no lore thing for him not to have air, he is the leader of taldarim race. You wanted to prevent him from spamming rays? Good. Just give him a Nova/Horners mechanics of calling air units 1 by 1. He will not have too much, but he will have some variety now.

Fenix:

  • Enlarge pylon capacity or give a bigger supply bonus.

  • When playing with Stetmann, violet field doesn’t recharge his energy. You may say this is Fenix’es concept - not to regen energy online, BUT this is Stetmann’s concept to DO so. You gave him the ability to recharge energy for allies. So what’s the problem? The entire Fenix’es race doesn’t have any other spell-casters rather than hero, he is the only one who can benefit from this… and he doesn’t.

Zeratul:

  • Nobody uses freezing beam.

  • The Form produces those stone things which also attack. They are not selected by F2.

  • The Essence makes a graphical bug. If it buffed your units they get a yellow aura sign and if you put them into transport then the signs stay on the ground till you unload units.

[Some things were fixed in December 2019: bad zealots legion, bad Form, some useless masteries, OP cannons nerfed. Really thanks for that.]

Horners:

  • Magnet mines look totally the same as enemy’s ones on mutation. Very hard to distinguish. Need to make mines of yours different color.

  • These mines really need to be speed buffed. They really don’t target more than half enemies.

Tychus:

  • Blaze needs a serious revamp. I just remind the topic on old forum where everything is described and liked:

[Blaze was partially fixed in December 2019, though I don’t think this suffice]

  • Warhound suicide turrets deal 50 only damage. It’s laughable. All men in the squad deal nearly same damage with 1 shot. Give the suicide turrets some debuff effect.

  • If your bar has rally point on some hero and that hero gets killed then rally is still pointed on the death place. Which can be still dangerous.

  • Tychus squad must have selection priority over ALL heroes. When a partner leaves and you stay with Tychus and for example Kerrigan it’s way better to have the squad’s menu - because this is the entire army power and the other heroes are just a part of an army.

  • Most of his units can’t dance.

Nova:

  • Non of her units can dance.

Swann:

  • Nobody uses his thors. He is nearly the only one to produce them but his is not encouraged to. They are completely overshadowed.

  • He is way to heavy on supply depos. Some commanders don’t need supply, some have it shortened, zergs make overlords (it’s easier), protossi don’t take probes for long to build and so on. Swann is the ONLY commander who is obliged to build all of this on and on. It’s repetitive spamming gameplay. Please do something to this. I advice to add his CC ladder ability to enlarge depos, may be for 100 min, not energy.

Maps:

  • Vermilion problem. Enemies don’t get damage from lava. I also saw civilians comfortably walking from lava.

  • Myst opportunities. Guys, seriously, this map is long and boring. It takes half an hour and about 10 minutes you just stand there and wait. I simply just leave when I get it, many people do the same. It’s not about I an that much grinder but the map is BORING. Please, speed it up. Make the bots triggerable.

  • Void launch is too easy. It is often cleared entirely in 15 minutes and then you have to just stand and WAIT. Either make it harder or add a trigger to launch ships faster if enemy bases are destroyed.

  • On Malwarfare map there are heavy rocks between bases and the 2nd bonuses, air forces are often heavy stuck there.

8 Likes
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i agree with some of what you are writing. i never use blaze however because i prefer the anti-air capabilities of the guns and the fixers. karax could use some improvements, that is true. they could cut the costs of the carriers and instead make the repair drones an individual upgrade. swann should get the calldown extra supply upgrade. vorazun have skins for void rays but maybe not for everything. super gary is available too late compared to how useful the upgrade is. maybe they should make it tier 1. they could increase the gas production of stetmann`s extractors.

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“vorazun have skins for void rays but maybe not for everything” - she has skins for all battle units (some units are nerazim by default, so no need special), but she has no skins for probes and buildings.

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4

As Highlord Alarak ordained I will remind everyone that he is still bugged.

Alarak can’t attack trains (perfect for this week’s mutation) and some weird interaction with deadly charge causes him to be unable to auto attack enemy units until you manually hit attack command over one of them.

These bugs were introduced in the same patch that added Stetmann and we are still waiting for a fix. Hopefully with the maintenance that is coming tomorrow.

2 Likes
5

I’d add the problems Nikara has been having to the Tychus section (committing suicide when F2Aing, which defeats the purpose of putting all the outlaws’ abilities on the same hotkey bar because you have to control Nikara separately or she’ll kill herself), but otherwise, fairly spot on. Good to see that Karax remains the most complained about topic on these forums even so long after his release (has it been years? It feels like it), and yet his issues still remain. :frowning:

6

“committing suicide when F2Aing” - whaaa? I never ever saw this. Tell more, how does suicide happen?

7

Basically, when you attack move with all your units, well, Nikara doesn’t have an attack, so she just moves. This means that if you attack move towards a group of enemies, Nikara will just mindlessly walk straight up to them, and frequently be gunned down. It’s why most Tychus players either opt for Rattlesnake instead, or keep Nikara in a separate control group from the rest of the team, which kinda defeats the purpose of having all the outlaws’ abilities on the same hotkey bar.

8

Why do you even make her? You have only 5 unit slots and you waste 1 for nothing. For healing you have platforms, right? Put masteries in them and you’ll have endless heal without wasting unit slot. Nikara is only needed on some mutations, for example healing SCVs on expo during snow storm.

9

Oh I don’t. What I’m describing is exactly why I don’t use Nikara. I tend to use Rattlesnake. But if these issues were fixed, I might use her.

1 Like
10

The only way to fix that behaviour is give her an attack. Every issue must be fixed. Anyway she is just not needed, you have platforms.

11

There are plenty of units without an attack that don’t have this problem. My advice would be to take a page out of the book of Horner’s Ravens or Alarak’s Havocs, give Nikara an autocast ability that targets enemies, something to debuff enemies or buff damage allies do to them. Anything to make her target enemies and stop without running straight up to them.

And again, saying she’s not needed is really beside the point: even if you’re right (which I’m not saying you are, I prefer to use the platforms for mobility, not healing), that’s just yet another design flaw.

1 Like
12

What if they gave Swann the option to upgrade CCs to Planetary Fortresses that gave an additional 25 supply for 250 minerals? I know the PFs wouldn’t really see much action but iti’s still within his theme and an additional 50 supply at the very least would at least reduce the amount of depots you’d need to build

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Player color is orange. We already have orange Swann and Fenix. I understand there are 17 commanders already but you have 16 colors (if i’m not mistaken) for 4x4 custom maps. Why don’t you use white, black, teal for someone?

It seems like they just don’t want overlap on race/color combinations. Swann is Orange Terran and Fenix is Orange Protoss, so Stetman being Orange Zerg isn’t an issue.

It doesn’t matter anyways because on the minimap your units will always be green so there’s no confusion.

All Commanders have to deal with a ton of minerals and comparatively little vespene. This isn’t a problem, it’s just how the game works. If Stetman can reach this point faster than other commanders, that just means his mineral dumps are that much more expendable.

Being able to Chrono construction was never meant to happen with anyone. Karax wasn’t nerfed, he was the only protoss commander who wasn’t bugged.

As for my own ideas, I just want Artanis’s unit production buildings to share the warpgate interface. Similar to how Tychus’s hero’s active abilities are all visible from Tychus’s interface.

2 Likes
14

All Terrans have a gimmick to ease in supply. Besides Nova and Tychus starting off with 100 supply, and being capped at that…
Raynor can insta-build them
Swann can use his Improved SCVs ability to pile on multiple SCVs to shorten their build time
HH takes regular build time, but do provide 16 (not just 8) supply, and 800 (not just 400) hp.

For Swann, I ended up doing a table of all of his reduced build times. For Supply Depots, grabbing 3 seems to be the sweet spot, reducing bt from 30 to 13…

15

Stetmann’s voice lines are still bugged with the volume too, he is still super loud when he talks.

16

I don’t think that’s a bug, he’s just yelling all the time :joy:

17

If you compare his volume to his old Mist Opportunities quotes and then listen to Stetmann as a CO, he is still significantly louder.

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18

Ok, you’re right.

19

Stukov infested soldier dont move faster on stetelites…

Amon’s Corsairs ‘absort’ Gary spell (E-Gorb) (the orbs disappert…) and somehow can destroy overcharged stetelites.

2 Likes
20

Bring back global 1QE2C. That was SUCH a fun playstyle for Alarak.

1 Like