The numbers she has are at least in the hundreds if not thousands.
I’ve yet to see that.
Is she? Hair aside I thought they made a good enough job. I mean, she’s still like the most powerful Terran when it comes to psionics and has the previous job experience of controlling the Zerg from her QoB life. So I’m not sure.
Completely missed the point. You don’t know everything of something just because you own and use it.
That’s a false argument there. Warfield is a highly trained soldier, he was a Marine himself, and went up the ladder. He knows what he’s talking about, especially when it comes to war and killing. We see him make the right call when he says the Queen of Blade is burrowing. He doesn’t say that, I wonder why.
It’s like having a PhD in war and using it to understand war and killing.
Figured I might as well answer to the points you made the last time, if you won’t address the rest I wrote.
I just checked, and the Starcraft Manual doesn’t mention the Void at all. I recall Starcraft mentioning the Void specifically in relation to the Overmind’s reincarnation ability only with the Zerg, and also in relation to the Dark Templar energies.
The Overmind is a creation of Amon, and it is indeed the collective will and consciousness of the Swarm as Amon bound the Zerg to it. Not once anywhere though, do I recall the Zerg’s hive mind or psionic link being described as coming from the Void at all.
I just realized that you were replying to me here.
Personally, I still think Browder’s answers re: Kerrigan having the ability to resurrect is the strongest point of your argument simply because he is the lead designer of the game (at this point). The fact that he’s clearly wrong about “Wings of Liberty” in the same sentence though, and that these interviews are years before release, strongly point to him being mistaken/incorrect and cast credible doubt on them, despite his job title and project involvement.
For your other bullet points:
Interestingly, Browder’s comments actually damage Warfield’s credibility as well, as according to the Lead Designer of the game, Warfield is clearly wrong in “Wings of Liberty.” Warfield’s perceptions don’t seem to be on point.
The art asset, Kerrigan’s death animation, I’d say is your second strongest point. I actually don’t have an answer for that one, other than this isn’t the first Blizzard Entertainment game to have an in-game resurrection mechanic that’s executed inconsistently lore-wise (Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos).
Telling the player their Hero “died” is simpler and faster than a deep tunneling explanation in text.
As I understand it, the Torrasque was resurrecting via a Cerebrate’s, and through the Overmind’s use of Void Energy.
For the record, I’m not shutting the door on Kerrigan being able to resurrect, primarily because Browder has said she can, but overall, the actual established lore and the games themselves strongly support that she can’t do so.
I do think this entire discussion is reading far, far too much into a simple in-game mechanic designed for the player to freely use their Hero unit without fear of loss.
the manual: explains the nature of the overmind as a psychic link that unites the zerg,that is a psychic manifestation of the zerg and…
the game explains that the void energy works against the zerg (cerebrate -overmind) because they use / are the same type of energy
the current zerg as a race were simply lobotomized, but its general psychic structure prevails including that psychic link based on void, only now it has no intellect of its own, now it is pure instinct directed by the most intelligent zerg
that is a “false opposition” fallacy that Kerrigan digs or not in WoL, does not contradict either Dustin or Warfield, even if this opposition were real Author> character
but here we have the authors and the animations coinciding
why do you think that kerrigan digging contradicts kerrigan’s resurrection? that kerrigan escapes at a point in history does not eliminate a capacitor, in WoL kerrigan is represented escaping, in HotS she is represented dying that not incopatible options, kerrigan can dig if kerrigan can resurrect this is a false dilemma
239/5000
torrasque revives why a cerebrate revives it and kerrigan was the equivalent of all united cerebrate, we see even abathur reviving an ultralisk if being in the same place, void energy is the basis of the gestal zerg gestal union
Tradition establishes the resurrection as the main threat of the Zerg, making useless regicide tactics forever since sc , the only value of the dark templar in this war
Hmmm… I don’t buy that line of reasoning though, because if the Void was what powered the Zerg’s hive mind consciousness, then the Dark Templar would be able to disrupt it.
Whenever we see the Zerg hive mind being disrupted/controlled, it’s through traditional (usually Terran) psionics.
I recall the game explaining the that the Dark Templar can kill a Cerebrate (and the Overmind) because their energy is the same that they use for reincarnation; nothing is ever mentioned regarding the Zerg’s hive mind.
They also weren’t lobotomized, they were simply connected to a greater whole that controls them, similar to the Borg, as an example. Disconnect the Borg Drone from the collective and it can think for itself again (though it will be lost, confused, and unwilling at first).
Disconnect the Zerg from the hive mind and, predominantly being beasts, they behave like animals.
Well, he’s not wrong in the sclegacy interview which is the one I was thinking of. I had no clue about the gamespot interview. But if he keeps repeating that information, that counts for something.
Eh? This is a weird train of thought. If it damages Warfield’s credibility are you admitting that Browder is right then? It’s always resurrection?
I’m going with what the game shows: burrowing animation & dialog in WoL, resurrection animation & dialog in HotS.
But we got such an explanation for Nova warping away. It directly states she avoided lethal damage, which is analogous to burrowing.
Yes. But the Torrasque itself is not a void user. The only thing that needs to use the void is the hive mind itself, and maybe Kerrigan’s hatchery.
That’s a plot point in the game. The Cerebrate’s deaths distracted the Overmind long enough for them to get their forces through.
Well, all this point is minor argument. Even if I could argue about it all, there won’t matter. I need to take down your ‘No Data’ argument, which you told me that I need to do it via Chat in Battle Net. I have neither time nor prepared argument for that.
All I have now is repeat my point that it is enough to rule out your theory,
I’m so tired of you calling us ‘dishonest’. If anyone here is dishonest, it is you.
I read both interview from GameSpot and SCLegacy. The only thing that is crystal clear is that Browder think Kerrigan revives in both WoL and HotS.
He is consistently misspoken in both interview. Yet, you keep ignoring this and saying that his opinion trumps ours. A statment that you use regularly until it’s in conflict with yours than the developers are idiot.
You keep saying that we Straw Man you and yet you use Straw Man.
So heal quickly is growing limb now? When did we ever state that she losing any limb? Even if she needed a new arm, that quite a leap to a whole new body with an entirely new brain.
You invent crap all the time to support your theory. The first Spawning Pool, a freaking Primal Spawning Pool is somehow utilizing the Void now? It’s okay because it supports your theory, right?
You ignore all your opponent good point. This Straw Man 2.0 strategy got to end. In what world is this a good tactic? Your opponent makes a good, well reasoning case against you and you response by ignoring it? How would that work exactly? You keep saying that Abathur protests against using the first Spawning Pool because it’s a waste of time and material? He sent billion of Zerg to a certain death all the time to evolve the Swarm. Do you know that he sent billion of Zergling into a well defend position until the Swarm evolve Beneling? Not to mention a number of Evolution Mission. If anything he should recommend sending in an army of Kerrigan until one desirable emerges. An army of mindless Kerrigan look alike. Just create her empty body and throw it into the Pool.
You like to dismiss our argument with that’s gameplay, but often use gameplay to poke hole at ours. Kerrigan can’t deep tunneling through metal? Yeah, well, it doesn’t make any sense that a Zerg can do that either. It doesn’t matter how advance you evolve, a sheet of metal is still a sheet of metal. Unless we are talking about a pile of scap, you can’t burrow through metal. You can drill a hole in it, but you can’t burrow through it. Zerg burrow through soil is poorly explained to begin with; the canon explaination that they vibrate and move through the ground only work in some specific soil content; Kelthar’s explaination is good enough under the accepted canon. Just like the fact that Protoss use mineral and gas to warp in instead of energy, it’s something that we just accept to be true. Kerrigan might look human, but we all know she is still Zerg. She could lift two marines, blow siege tank up and more with her mind, stuffs that pre-infested Kerrigan can’t do.
You always shift the burden of proof on us all the time. Our theory is that she is mortal; going into the Spawning Pool is a real risk. You’re the one who said she is functionally immortal. And now you’re whining that you need to explain how she could be at risk going into the Spawning Pool? Or better yet…
What the fork are you thinking? Ours is that her death is quite permanent. It’s your theory that death is not permanent; that she died multiple time and come back without a scratch. Ours is that she always escape before taking any lethal damage. In what sense that it’s our job to provide proof for your theory against our very own argument? You always whine and ask us for proof whenever you can’t provide one to support your own (Well, either this or straight up ignore us). This is one of the most dishonest thing you do.
And the wrost offender of all…
Fine, IF YOU CAN KEEP YOUR ARGUMENT CONSISTENT. One moment Kerrigan is being revived by the outside force. Another moment, she revives herself just like Cerebrate/Overmind.
Your tactic of switching explaination to the one that most convenient for the moment leads to multiple self-contradiction. Somehow you think that is okay? Do you know what general people call that?
Do you know that it’s very cowardice to keep your stance completely in the air? I lost count how many time I destroyed your theory and you just reply with ‘Nah, that’s juts my speculation. So, it’s not that, huh? Hang on… Okay, I just make up three new craps; I’m still right.’ For the rest of us, we have only one and if you destroyed it, we admit defeat (albeit very rarely).
You think we can’t do the same thing? I could claim that when she is in critical condition she falls down and self-decapitate. Her deadlock, which is clearly Zerg in nature come to life and dig a tunnel to the Primary Hatchery, where the rest of her is being regrow. Or the Primary Hatchery dispatch an insurrance under Kerrigan feet. Some kind of organism that follow her around in silcence right under her feet and at the moment when she is about to be killed it spring up swallow her and bring her back. Or some other nonsense that the Emperor could come up with. This is a very dishonest way to keep yourself correct.
It’s quite possible he’s talking about revival as a gameplay mechanic not as a lore element in Wings of Liberty. Furthermore, I don’t care that he’s wrong in a separate part of the interview. Where do you draw the line? Is the whole interview invalid? Is every interview he does invalid? His statements should be evaluated individually, and what he said about HotS matches up with what’s in the game.
When there’s two separate interviews about how resurrection works and it matches up with the game, it becomes a fact. Period. You freaking lose and it’d be cool if you just dealt with that fact instead of continuing to respond.
So what use is this worthless burrowing ability then? She can’t lose any limbs or get shot in the head while in combat? How is this any different than if we all just agreed she runs back to base for healing? Would that not be more efficient than freaking burrowing?
At least my explanation is an actual explanation instead of a cop-out.
No, it doesn’t have to use the void, but it is a special pool and it does have extraordinary capabilities. And no, it doesn’t even have to kill her, because she can die anyway even with resurrection, which is not favorable on the battlefield.
Is this it? This is you “getting me” and tearing apart my argument? I’m not impressed.
Are you really too oblivious to notice that I’m giving you multiple possibilities as an explanation because there is not enough information on how it works? You really think that’s the same thing as “switching explanation” and “multiple self-contradiction”? Are you stupid?
You’re asking me all these nitty-gritty details about resurrection (and getting mad when I answer), while in the meantime, you refuse to provide any of your own actual evidence for a change or explain how a human can burrow through miles of rock while injured. Talk about cowardice & intellectual dishonesty.
This argument could’ve ended a 180 comments earlier.
Q: Does Kerrigan burrow to safety in WoL?
A: Yes.
Q: Do characters acknowledge this?
A: Yes.
Q: Does the animation match up with this?
A: Yes.
Q: Does Kerrigan burrow to safety in HoTS in that one mission?
A: …
Q: Do characters acknowledge it?
A: No.
Q: Does the animation match up?
A: No.
Q: Do we get another explanation?
A: Yes.
So the part where he disagree with you, he talked about something else. Wow, that’s just gold.
Where do I draw the line? I thought I have repeatedly told you, Death of the Author! I don’t care about all of them whether it’s agree or disagree with me, I discard them all and judge the game as is.
I don’t care about the whole interview. You care, quote, and use the interview to support your case. You’re cherry picking part that agree with you even though literally part of the same quote is wrong. I don’t. I know that there can be misinformation renders the whole thing meaningless.
Yes, yes, and any part that agree with you got to stay, right? You do realize that you’re using this to support your position, right? This logic is circular if I ever saw one.
Gradius, it’s the same interview. I quoted the SCLegacy interview that you’re so rely on. Also, Browder is wrong on BOTH interview.
I think you’re confused between game and your interpretation of it…
Here is a thing, if you can subsitute your position with my and vice versa and it still work, then maybe you shouldn’t bring it up in the first place.
So what use is this worthless resurrection ability then?
How is this any different than if we all just agreed she runs back to base for healing?
Would that not be more efficient than freaking resurrection?
At least my explanation is an actual explanation with theory instead of a speculation.
Also,
You just make crap up again. Where exactly do we see her losing any limb or get shot in the head? Is it even possible? (I don’t mind, but you keep criticize other when they do it.)
Gradius, you really don’t see the problem here? I don’t know how you can think this is okay. You trip over yourself and contradict your own explaination is just…
So the resurrection is useless…
Straw Man again? EDITED: We’re talking about going into the Spawning Pool, not battlefield.
Seeing as you ignore my points again and fail at many critical logic, yeah. I mean you cherry picking. You use a circular logic. Self-contradict. Straw Man. How can I or anyone get you? Even if I’m perfectly right and you’re completely wrong, there is no way I can prove that against this many dishonest tactic.
Wow, I got to remember this. This is the day when you sink to a new dishonesty low. If there is not enough information on how it works, then there is not enough information for you to give any explaination. There is also not enough information for you
Yes, I do. Where is the different? You never even once saying anything to that nature just keep giving contradict statement.
Not at all. This is all your fault. Completely and utterly your fault. No matter how you slice it this cannot be anyone’s, but yours. It can’t even be partially mine.
So, all these time, all these years, it was an elaborate way to hint to me that you don’t have enough information? All these time I accuse you of making conflicting statement, you can’t be bother to say that instead of just ignoring my case?
Anyway, this seals it, then. The Emperor and I win the argument while you lost. You have insufficient information to support your position about how ‘your resurrection’ works. Well, we do. Your position has a number of hole that you can’t fix due to the lack of information. (No, contradicting explainations aren’t counted. No one accepts position with numerous contradiction as valid; that’s just how debate works.) Ours has some problem here and there, but generally it works well most of the time. Actually, there are just two, the animation and metal floor.
I’m sorry, but if there are two competing ideas. One of them has a solid explaination while the other has fluid inconsistent explaination. One has some flaws that can be ignored and overlooked while the other has numerous flaws that can’t be fixed. One has a simple understandable theory while the other has nothing. Well, the winner is clear.
I know you really tried to hint about the lack of data; next time just state that you don’t know, alright? It would be much more efficient mean of communication. Your explaination fails to convey your insufficiency and fix the problem that we raise. Since you can’t properly patch up the flaw anyway (It’s no your fault; you don’t have information.), might as well get your underlying point across, don’t you think?
So, after long tedius back and forth, we finally end this! Thank Gradius for finally admit to his inadequacy! Good Game; Well Play!
Yes, and that’s our point. In every specific instant that the Emperor brought up, we don’t need to bent ourselves backward to justify anything; she could just die. It’s Gradius who needs to justify her mortality at those moment. (Which, unfortunately, he has no information to play with… and thus unable to justify anything…)
On the battlefield, she always peace out before she is too wounded to deep tunneling.
