Case in point. Thanks for ignoring all the other evidence ive brought to the table.
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Like what?
âBuT hOw dOeS KeRIgaN AlmoSt DiE vs NaRUd tHeNâ is not evidence. Itâs just a dumb question. Itâs like asking how Zasz died to Zeratul.
Or Kerrigan offering Raynor an opportunity to kill her. Is it not obvious that she would forego the reincarnation process that she controls? No different than her lowering her psi shield so his bullet can even get through.
First off, no Gradius, none of those things are âobviousâ because theyre the premise that youre trying to prove. You cant use your claim as evidence for itself, thatâs just circular logic.
Secondly, you have yet to actually address any of the other inconsistencies with her literally dying and being able to come back. Why does she give Zagara a contingency plan for her death on Korhal if the only way for her to be killed is to eliminate the entire Swarm? Why do the zerg not behave the same way that they did every other time their leader was temporarily killed? Why does Abathur recommend she not use the First Spawning Pool if all that will do is cause her to grow a new body and try again a minute later? Why does the game continually treat death as a real, tangible threat if only the protoss and Narud can actually meaningfully kill her (something that you have to establish in and of itself first).
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LMAO. We were talking about what evidence you brought to the table apart from that one quote. Glad you agree with me that itâs nothing more than trying to shift burden of proof onto me.
Already explained this. Go back and re-read.
Prove that they donât. Nothing happens in-game when a Cerebrate dies in SC1 to non-void beings, other than the one time we used the psi disruptor. Iâm not going to build your argument for you.
Better yet, prove that it should work the same. Zagara was able to take control for Kerrigan when she was unconscious.
If anything, that whole interaction proves that Kerrigan doesnât take death seriously. When your biology master tells you that the acid pool will kill you yet you walk in anyway, the only options are insanity or reincarnation being available.
Apart from that, growing a new body costs time & resources. Dying isnât fun. Yes, donât walk into the acid pool. Duh.
Really? Ok. Why does the game treat death as a real, tangible threat when she can burrow away anytime according to you?
Dying, albeit temporarily, is still a setback. With resurrection there are still things that can permanently kill her. Even conventional weapons can kill her by eliminating nearby hatcheries.
Thereâs a range limit to the reincarnation, so missions like Supreme are easily explained by saying that thereâs no hatcheries in range. Or just that dying is a gameplay restriction. Nobody in that mission ever acts like Kerrigan can actually lose anyway.
But I can nitpick too though.
- Explain burrowing as a human.
- Explain burrowing while unconscious.
- Explain burrowing through freaking metal while injured.
- Explain why Naktul mentions Kerriganâs essence is stored at the hatchery. Why is that relevant?
- Why didnât Kerrigan burrow to Raynor in Back in the Saddle?
- Why didnât Kerrigan burrow anytime during Flashpoint? Like when escaping from Narud? Answer: because the idea of a human burrowing is freaking retarded.
Like Iâm gonna stop as long as there is a claim unanswered. Nope.
But thatâs another false argument. My starting claim, which wasnât even a claim but letâs go with that, was at least assuming hundreds of Zerg. I mean, we are talking about Zerg.
The two entity thing was always about the hivemind. Wiggling reincarnation into it, eh, very unlikely, also derailing what I said.
Because we donât know how the Zerg works. Can one mostly empty Zergling brain take up a brain worth of information? We still run into the lack of information and no matter how much you claim otherwise, it stops all theory dead in its tracks.
Disagreed. You donât work without information. The only time it is happening if you can learn the information during work.
A standard die will always have six sides with six different numbers on it. A Zerg swarm will have a significantly more complex structure and numbers than six possibilities. And while a 1004 Zergling and 1022 Zerglings are different but not different enough to make the difference, a 1004 and 3012 are different. Still is a little difference between them and a 100 000.
No, it is not a requirement. Good guesses would be sufficient, except there are no good guesses. X could come in and claim three is enough. S could come in and say not even three billion would be adequate. Which one was right? Well we donât know.
Because these details are important.
I disagree with your conclusion. First of all, they have a highly specialized behavior and biology, and a nice and mostly unused brain. See where Iâm going?
Reason, not reasoning. As in the purpose, sanity, etc.
We have a theory in front of us, good or bad, everybody decide that for themselves. We are trying to restrict it to and with numbers when we donât have actual numbers and enough information.
-
- -14. 798.022.
I donât think it worked. I disagree with your take on jamming numbers into this Christmas turkey.
Itâs not smarts the individual Zerg possess, itâs reliability in following orders, working together with the other parts of the Swarm and storing information. They donât have to be smart, only the leaders. We actually know of a few smart subspecies, like the Overlords.
They donât need to. Intelligence and storing information arenât necessarily the same thing.
And Overlords and some specialized Zerg.
False argument. In order to have a functioning hivemind you need at least one commanding entity and bodies that follow, thereâs also a requirement for at least one. Your brain is already a sooper-dooper compooter. Add another minor drive and big, empty storage space to it in perfect sync. Add more bodies and more sub-brains and it will become more and more capable. However, I was talking about a big, proper Swarm, but at least a couple hundred bodies.
Keep at it, Iâll keep on dismissing it because it is a number none of us can provide. But go ahead, brother, if you want to bang your head on a wall I wonât stop you.
Only if we do it through BattleNet. The forum format is not good for it. Then we have a deal, not before.
I donât think the Overlord has the means to control like a Cerebrate or Broodmother does, per se. They are there to make the control of an actual controller smoother and while they are intelligent, they are not leaders.
Where she was Zerg.
I have a dog I treated right. Never knew she had it in her to snap and bite towards someone, until they treated her bad. Yâknow what Iâm saying?
Heâs a veteran and a general. He should know more than an infantryman, and even though his ineptitude is shown ('cause Jimbo has to be the hero) he did see things right.
I know it probably counts as gameplay but I think itâs funny the game says "Kerrigan has died. she will be revived." when Kerrigan dies. With Nova itâs âshe will be warped back to the command center to avoid lethal damage.â
Almost like the game is telling you exactly what was going on. As if the death animation and other crap wasnât enough. 
But letâs be real, I could find a quote from God and it wouldnât really matter. 
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What the fork do you mean? If you can accept that it happens in Wing of Liberty, then you can accept it for Heart of the Swarm.
Itâs your theory. Youâre the only who said this is how it happens if itâs not your responsibility, then whose?
So for your reincarnation, all that is needed is a single Hatchery. Nice Iâll remember that.
Well, youâre the one who treats it like itâs part of the lore. Both Emperor and I talk about it from a lore stand point. If itâs not, then you should make your argument that way.
I have just re-read the string of response between you the the Emperor up to that point. Itâs clear that the Emperor was saying from lore point of view the Cerebrate out of commission for a while. You then responded that it was instant. If itâs a gameplay mechanics, then what is this response suppose to mean?
The Emperor: In lore, it takes a while for Cerebrate to reincarnate!
The Beacon: No, it happens instantly from gameplay.
Gunblade: What!?!?!
I agree. From gameplay point of view, itâs that you got a very powerful hero unit. However, it would be a shame if you donât use it because youâre afraid about instant lose if it dies. So let us give it ability to revive after a period of time at the primary Hive Cluster. Also, put in the Hatchery requirement to prevent it being way too easy! (Like that would ever matter, LoL.)
From gameplay mechanics, there is no different between reincarnation or deep tunneling. Just character being respawn after a while. I have waited and waited, but this never come up from you. Hence,
Nope, too late, Beacon. You have so many chances to argue with gameplay mechanics, you didnât. The path is no longer available to you. We might be start making argument from the lore, but you never dispute it to be otherwise.
Are you daft or something? Itâs not about me and who I am. Itâs about you. Youâre the one making this argument. The least you can do is explaining clearly when asked. Even if itâs not to me, then to the Emperor or Brother BartFitz. If you canât explain yourself coherently, itâs your fault that we misunderstand your position. Itâs not my broken English. Itâs not Straw Man. Itâs irrelevant. Itâs your inability and refusal to make a clear argument.
Yes, this is what you have. Do you know what it all have in common? Itâs all lore argument. Not a single one of them is gameplay. Even the interview, the developer clearly answer from lore perspective. And to put the final nail on this reincarnation being a gameplay thing.
Just so you know I read and re-read your word a couple of time already to make sure that I didnât misinterpreted or Straw Man you. You typed that weâre making lore argument against reincarnation which is a gameplay mechanics. This is our fault not yours. This is what you typed. This is your argument. Itâs going to be extremely dishonest of you to keep using âgameplay mechanicsâ as a way to deny our evidence/dismiss our argument.
Rather than make a bunch of nested quotes and just repeat myself a bunch, im going to say it once. No Gradius, you havenât answered any of those criticisms. Youâve just said that there is probably an answer, somewhere.
And the burden of proof is absolutely on you. Youre the one trying to claim that the explicit explanation given by the game is wrong. Thatâs a heck of a claim, and one that you need to be prepared to back up pretty thoroughly.
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Wings of Liberty has a burrowing animation and Warfield telling you that sheâs burrowed. HotS has the exact opposite. Are you guys just high?
Great so whereâs the lore that says this doesnât happen in StarCraft 2? Iâll be here.
Still have no clue what your point is. Neither the lore nor the gameplay mechanics support your stance.
The gameplay actually says âKerrigan has died. She will be revived.â As for lore, Warfield and the art assets support reincarnation, on top of the fact that burrowing through miles of rock while injured for a human is stupid & impossible. I canât lose enough brain cells to consider that a viable lore explanation.
Cool. So the last post where I directly answer them justâŚdoesnât exist? Nice insane troll logic.
You havenât even tried explaining how burrowing works for a human. Or why Warfield is wrong. Or why the game is lying when it says Kerrigan died. Or why the art doesnât show her burrowing. Or why the lead designer is wrong.
Basically, youâve become a pro at denying evidence. Must be nice having zero standards for yourself.
You donât directly answer them, you just say âwell theres probably an answer, somewhere.â
The game explicitly says X. Youre the one saying âno, Yâ. I donât need to prove X, its the default position, because its the one that the game explicitly takes. Like, this isnât complicated.
As for the game saying Kerrigan died⌠she did, in gameplay. Like, her hero unit died. Thatâs what its referring to. Youre the one trying to take this and turn it into some radical lore statement that doesnât fit in with literally anything else.
Except I have more evidence from the game than you.
Look at Nova though. It doesnât say she died. It says she warped back to avoid lethal damage.
Those lines seem to be pretty specific about whatâs happening.
No, you have more speculation than me. The game consistently treats death as a very final event for Kerrigan, not âlol, im like Jean Grey, brbâ
Ill take âreading too much into itâ for 500
Itâs the daily double!
Why does Kelthar always deny evidence? 
First off, Jeopardy âquestionsâ are given in the form of an answer, to which you have to reply in the form of a question.
Secondly, your âevidenceâ isnât evidence, because its factually incorrect.
Want an example? Kerriganâs alleged reincarnation cant be stopped by void powers, because it isnât a void power itself.
Alright, this is getting boring. Time for another recap of how you lost the debate.
- Warfield telling you she burrowed in Wings of Liberty, resurrected in HotS.
- Art assets showing you that she died.
- The game text telling you she died and will be revived (as opposed to burrowing/warping back to avoid lethal damage like Nova).
- Lead designer telling us that itâs resurrection.
- Other units like the SC1 Torrasque explicitly resurrecting.
Versus your one Naktul quote that needs to be interpreted differently because a human burrowing through miles of rock is retarded & nonsensical. The whole point of WoL & the artifact was that we brought her back as a human.
How does this work? Do we declare me the winner yet? Does a mod come to close the thread?
Whereâs your evidence so I know you didnât just make this up on the spot?
Oh right, you never have any. Your opinion is just supposed to automatically trump mine because thatâs how you think debates work.
Gradius, Kelthar.
Get an hotel room to do your stuff 
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Hey look, Gradius is ignoring evidence! How hypocritical!
-Kerrigan treats death as a possibility on Korhal
-Kerrigan dies for real on the Moros and on Zerus
-Kerrigan comes within an inch of getting killed by Narud
-Kerrigan expresses concern that Zagara might kill her while sheâs weak
-Kerrigan offers to allow Jim to execute her
-Abathur expresses concern that the First Spawning Pool will kill her
Look at all this evidence that death is permanent for Kerrigan!
Already easily addressed in post 204. Now go back and answer my questions about how human burrowing works. 
She glues miniature zerglings to her feet. More seriously, the hostile environment suit that sheâs wearing can vibrate at a high frequency, similar to zerg. Normally this is used to remove dust, but Kerrigan has so much energy she may be able to adapt it. But the explanation is beside the point. She has the burrow ability in game. Its an accepted truth that she can do it.
And you havenât addressed any of those. See above about your explanations ranging from factually mistaken to outright contradicting canon.
A suit that vibrates really fast? Thanks for the laugh, I needed that.
Talking about these questions though.