Those zergs don’t overtake Protoss players in economy until like 50 workers. Those players build additional units. Those players scout diligently to know how many and which additional units to make. Those players are always in perfect position to intercept attacks. Those players spread creep to be able to navigate their units, etc. It is not as simple as you put it and don’t insult yourself claiming that it is, because we both know it is not.
Who says we are specifically talking about PvZ?.
Sort of. But that wording is leading to believe that queens are supposed to solve everything, which is not what my argument is. I am saying that extra units are built, and all the time, because mass queens does not handle everything. Well, if you attack with 5 marines yes, they handle it, but the majority of harass or pressure builds (that are not air based, as at that point only queens and spores shoot up) cannot be solved by queens alone. Hellions can run past them and torch the mineral lines, for example, if there are no zerglings or roaches to support the queens.
Should I point to FistFullOfZen’s variety of threads about zerg units and how, for some bizarre reason, they get support for players complaining? Or reddit’s comments whining about nearly every zerg unit that deals damage? And there’s more. You yourself recently also aknowledged that the whine was getting out of hand.
Exactly. Several queens also melt to stimmed marines even with transfuse, as the healing can’t keep up unless you get an obscene number of queens that is only possible if the double drop comes like at the 7 minute mark instead of at a good timing. Hence, we build zerglings to make sure that the marines cannot drop at a comfortable choke and that once they drop at open space we can deal with them. Which is my point, that queens alone do not solve the problem.
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I never said. But the claims that early game zerg economy is too good is not objective when, for the majority of the early game, zerg has lower worker countt than protoss. I used PvZ as an exmaple, I’m talking about both match ups (I’m talking the general picture), not one, but I can’t use every example of every matchup at the same time because, well, I don’t want to write a 7 page essay on queens.
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They solve most problems but not all of the problems. 
It’s less about economy more about threats to Zergs economy and how the Queen meta reduces those threats over time as Zerg players get better against them.
Correct. Use sh. Problem solved.
Bio isn’t turtle. Problem solved.
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They only fully solve the problems that are meant to be fully solved by them because no other unit can help at the job. Like airborne problems. Most ground based problems (that are actually good AND hit at a correct timing) need support units to be solved. Like hellbat pressure. You need banes or roaches to solve hellbat pressure problems unless it comes to a point where you have too few hellbats for too many queens. In which case the hellbat harass probably came way too late. In that situation, it is an execution problem, because if it comes late enough for queens alone to solve it, a much greater hellbat count would be needed to match the greater queen count that the extra time affords.
So sure, if the problem itself is a joke of a problem, then yes queens can solve it. If the problem hits early and well executed, and is not a troll build of some sorts, then queens alone should not be able to solve it unless the execution is terrible. The exception are airborne problems, but hell, unless you expect lings with wings to actually fly then no supporting units at lair tech are supposed to help combat those problems.
Actually no you don’t.
Hellbat push is killed by pure Queens. I’ve seen this soooo many times on streams of ML players and above. With Zerg playing the most standard build possible
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for the turtle you use tanks primarily or libs. bio serves for drop play and as frontline.
think mech is better in the turtle because of gta range advantage, weaker against sh.
Bio has more dps which makes it better against sh.
It depends on the type. A concussive shell hellbat all in needs banelings to counter it but aside from that I think you’re correct.
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Um, thanks for the reply I guess (???) but I didn’t said anywhere I have problem with turtling?
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8 range AA Queens have completely removed all forms of early air harassment that isn’t a BC.
Which means Zerg doesn’t have to worry about early game air if they build enough Queens and position them correctly.
The solution to ground problems is also the solution to early game air problems. Building more Queens.
Pure hellbat, maybe, but the double drop that came with 4 hellbats and 8 stimmed marines that was popular about a year ago needed banes or roaches to defend. Either way, it fell out of style but it was simply one example.
Other builds that need extra units apart from queens (and are not air based):
-2-1-1 Double drop.
-Combat shields timings with 2 tanks (the one maru did where he got marines until he had 2 tanks then moved out with stim and shields)
-Archo drop. Yes, you need probably roaches to defend that without massive losses.
-Adept pressures. Both with and without glaives. You need lings.
-Hellion runbys in the early game. You need lings to surround them, else they just run past queens and torch the drones.
-Ghost-marauder-Hellbat pressure. Used by TY not so long ago, Special copied it in a game vs Serral. You need banes or roaches, basically.
And well, plenty more, but I think you get the point. Maybe the example I used before was a bad one, but it is not the only one that I could have used (I picked one at random).
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What are you talking about.
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Shame that BC just happens to be a hugely popular opener isn’t it?
Also, many protosses like Stats still like to open stargate against zerg. And tend to get some drone kills with the typical strategy of lifting the queen and zapping the drones. Then we have double stargate phoenix, in which case the losses are guaranteed for the zerg and the only strategy available is to hunker down, accept that you are going to be the protoss’ playing thing for some time and try to minimize the damage.
And support units along those queens
Unless the opposing build or execution is simply bad, then yeah, queens take care of it.
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2 medivacs, one full of marines, one full of hellions. You drop, then morph, then push. Fell out of favour because simply helion runbys were better and double marine drops had more dps, but they were popular for a time. Either way, it was just one example. There are many more of build that require more than simply massing queens alone.
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I have never seen it but it sounds god awful and like the Terran player doesn’t know how to spend his money.
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Eventually it was phased out. Probably because of that. Hellion runbys ignoring the queens and marine drops are way better.
Because it’s the only air opener that doesn’t get completely shutdown by Queens. It’s the only one left that Terran can do.
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Queens vs adepts? lol adepts win that every time as long as they just shade past the queens are useless. Queens vs zerflings? Lings will usually win that fight you actually want baneling against lings.
But you realize that marines can be made against everything right? like this argument doesn’t even make sense. The basic units (Ling, queen, roach, marine, hellion, zealot, adept, stalker) you can make the argument for that if you build them they will be of immense help to you…that’s why they are basic units because they are adaptable to help deal with early game stuff. Go take a break from the game if you need it instead of trying to blame everything on the queen who hasn’t been buffed in three years. Your whole premise is always, "Zerg should have to cripple themselves to defend early game so I can have an easier time. I shouldn’t have to think about how, where, or when, I should attack. I should just be able to send an oracle into their mineral line and wipe it clean. "
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