Any rational Protoss in existence?

[NaughtyElf-21983]

@lllIlIlIlIl-1983

It is time series data, e.g. has trends that evolve forward in time. The more data you include about the past, the less and less it represents the now. To do it properly, you’d have to do a time-series analysis and that’s more complicated, error prone and a larger time investment. By doing a simple average, you get the average performance across a period of time, so it represents balance as it was at the median of your time period.

So if you looked all the way back to the balance patch of last year, you’d be looking at balance as it was about 5 months ago, which obviously isn’t very useful. A simpler and just as effective way of doing it is to just rewind the clock far enough back that your sample’s size grows large enough for statistical significance. Picking the start of 2021 makes it easier and less error prone than any other arbitrary date since the data is already grouped by year on teamliquid.

But since it is an average it means this is balance as it was 3-4 months ago. So Protoss is a lot more overpowered than these statistics indicate.

Should have red the topic from the beginning while I was saying this:

@NaughtyElf-21983

I think your numbers are way off and wrong to start with, but I already had that discussion and it’s probably part of your bias. It seems to me that you are just shouting numbers without having actually checked them. For example, take a look at the last patch since 13 august 2020 and compare the amounts of victories per race in the premier tournaments (there just isn’t a reason to leave out any premier tournaments played that patch if you want to calculate your ‘balance of the races’ during that patch)

[lllIlIlIlIl-1983]

@NaughtyElf-21983

Should have red the topic from the beginning while I was saying this

OK so when you encounter a hard-counter to your argument you’re just going to troll. Thanks for making everyone who might have attempted a conversation with you aware. You saved them a lot of time.

[lllIlIlIlIl-1983]

@llllllllllll-12402

Naughty Elf was the only one to actually engage in any type of scientific language

He’s just a troll as I just proved quite clearly. I have been attempting to discuss this here, on reddit and discord and I can definitively say I have not encountered a single protoss player willing to have a rational discussion about the facts. I think since Protoss is an easier race it caters to the lower end of the intelligence bracket which is probably why so many of them struggle with very simple concepts like reading graphs, how averages, means and medians work, etc.

[ShiaLaBeouf-11502]

not worth to even try to argue with these people. Its obvious they are straight up denying facts at this point. Any logical being with any kind of intelligence would notice how broken protoss is. Literally every statistics possible and metrics are pointing towards that conclusion but all they do is plug their ears and go “LALALALALALA YOU ONLY CRY LALALALA”. We are arguing with children. They know it but they wont admit it. They’re personally biased and conflicted for them to be rational.

[lllIlIlIlIl-1983]

@ShiaLaBeouf-11502

not worth to even try to argue with these people. Its obvious they are straight up denying facts at this point. Any logical being with any kind of intelligence would notice how broken protoss is. Literally every statistics possible and metrics are pointing towards that conclusion but all they do is plug their ears and go “LALALALALALA YOU ONLY CRY LALALALA”. We are arguing with children. They know it but they wont admit it. They’re personally biased and conflicted for them to be rational

Paul vs Fauci

[NaughtyElf-21983]

@lllIlIlIlIl-1983

OK so when you encounter a hard-counter to your argument you’re just going to troll. Thanks for making everyone who might have attempted a conversation with you aware. You saved

@lllIlIlIlIl-1983

He’s just a troll as I just proved quite clearly. I have been attempting to discuss this here, on reddit and discord and I can definitively say I have not encountered a single protoss player willing to have a rational discussion about the facts. I think since Protoss is an easier race it caters to the lower end of the intelligence bracket which is probably why so many of them struggle with very simple concepts like reading graphs, how averages, means and medians work, etc.

Dear Batzy the troll,

It’s not because you put your profile now as hidden, that we can’t decipher your nonsense, nor will we ever accept it. You can annoy, partially quote, troll or insult different fora as much as you want, and whether you do it on your main account a barcode or an alt you will get the same result: none.

Kind regards and off you go.

[lllIlIlIlIl-1983]

@NaughtyElf-21983

Dear Batzy the troll,

It’s not because you put your profile now as hidden, that we can’t decipher your nonsense, nor will we ever accept it. You can annoy, partially quote, troll or insult different fora as much as you want, and whether you do it on your main account a barcode or an alt you will get the same result: none.

Kind regards and off you go

Note to all those watching: this is his attempt at a response to an argument that completely destroyed his points. He will now try to save face by burying the response in nonsense like this. Don’t let him do it. Here is the response he doesn’t want you to see:

@lllIlIlIlIl-1983

It is time series data, e.g. has trends that evolve forward in time. The more data you include about the past, the less and less it represents the now. To do it properly, you’d have to do a time-series analysis and that’s more complicated, error prone and a larger time investment. By doing a simple average, you get the average performance across a period of time, so it represents balance as it was at the median of your time period.

So if you looked all the way back to the balance patch of last year, you’d be looking at balance as it was about 5 months ago, which obviously isn’t very useful. A simpler and just as effective way of doing it is to just rewind the clock far enough back that your sample’s size grows large enough for statistical significance. Picking the start of 2021 makes it easier and less error prone than any other arbitrary date since the data is already grouped by year on teamliquid.

But since it is an average it means this is balance as it was 3-4 months ago. So Protoss is a lot more overpowered than these statistics indicate

[ShiaLaBeouf-11502]

dont worry, we’ve all seen it. Its crazy how anybody can even spew that kind of nonsense with a straight face.

[llllllllllll-12402]

Dude, you legit looked at 4 different stats, picked only the ones you could find the slightest hole in, then decided they were all BS. That’s the definition of a strawman. Again, you’re likely a very rational person in your personal life (kind of like how I assume Batz is), but in this particular vein, you’re just not.

Your inability to accept evidence that conflicts with your conclusion (Protoss is just fine) or accept unbiased opinions of experts who have nothing to gain by saying as much, means you’re more than likely not willing to accept any level of proof.

[lllIlIlIlIl-1983]

@llllllllllll-12402

Dude, you legit looked at 4 different stats, picked only the ones you could find the slightest hole in, then decided they were all BS. That’s the definition of a strawman. Again, you’re likely a very rational person in your personal life (kind of like how I assume Batz is), but in this particular vein, you’re just not

You give them way too much credit. I used to be that way. I used to assume there must be some way that what someone says makes sense. No matter how insane what they are saying is, there must be some fact pattern that would make it at least understandable. I realized sometimes there just isn’t. In fact that’s the case most times. There are people who think space wizards are trying to mind control the masses with 5G magnets. Average people armed with a google search will shout down experts. People will waive a rainbow flag in the streets during a Capitol One parade thinking they are “fIghTinG ThE SyStEm”. Some people just cannot understand what is going on no matter how obvious the facts, no matter how simple the concepts.

To a statistician, it was beyond obvious Protoss was OP the moment they were dominating Grandmaster. Now players are abandoning Zerg on the ladder, they have set multiple records in GM and pro level performance, and people still deny it. You can’t make a blind man see, bourne, unless your name is Jesus and even he is helpless against stupidity.

“Against stupidity the very gods themselves contend in vain.” - Friedrich Schiller

[CollegeWings-1825]

So much for being rational

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/sc2/t/any-rational-tz-in-existence/23178/69

I guess this is how rational people speak right? Of course when people like you are proven wrong, you resort to insults and complete nonsense. I know the last response was about 15 days ago, but the discussion was over before it started - this entire thread is a joke and so are you buddy. Take a seat. Forever

[CrusaderKing-1612]

@llllllllllll-12402

Dude, you legit looked at 4 different stats, picked only the ones you could find the slightest hole in, then decided they were all BS. That’s the definition of a strawman. Again, you’re likely a very rational person in your personal life (kind of like how I assume Batz is), but in this particular vein, you’re just not.

Your inability to accept evidence that conflicts with your conclusion (Protoss is just fine) or accept unbiased opinions of experts who have nothing to gain by saying as much, means you’re more than likely not willing to accept any level of proof.

Yes, I’ve noticed this phenomenon in certain individuals as well – fairly rational in many regards in life, but absolutely refuse to view their desired race as unbalanced in situations where its beyond obvious.

Batz saying zerg was weak in 2019 made the least sense to any rational person no matter how you sliced it, but he kept at it.

Protoss players are shouting that their race is ‘fair’ and will die on that hill. The first red flag is the fact that they think their race is ‘fair’. Oftentimes, when several individuals claim their race is ‘fair’ and not ‘underpowered’, then that probably means their race is more on the OP side, and that they are trying to make their race sound ‘fair’.

[lllIlIlIlIl-1983]

@CrusaderKing-1612

Batz saying zerg was weak in 2019 made the least sense to any rational person no matter how you sliced it, but he kept at it

You refuse to admit that the premier tournaments are not an accurate indicator of balance when they are by definition outliers. I don’t have time to explain to you the difference between an outlier at the tail of a distribution and the mean of the distribution. The mean of a distribution is where trends are measured and outliers are thrown out. You refuse to admit the mean / average Zerg performance and keep pointing to the outliers of premier events dominated by serral, region lock and luck. This is statistically invalid and contrary to the very basic concepts of statistics and indicates an extremely poor understanding of the subject.

Until you can get simple statistical concepts like this correct, I am 100% convinced you have never in your entire life taken a college level math / stats class (contrary to what you claim).

[abs-2628]

You know what guys. I am reading your passionate conversation and at this point it is clear to everyone that you should perhaps find yourself another game/hobby/activity - anything that will make you happier man.

Why arguing about some dead rotting piece of meat when you can actually find different video games brimming with life, less toxic with milions of active players etc.

Come on people you are adult ,intelligent people. Do not destroy what’s left of your credibility.