When I tried it on PTR it seemed really strong. But I guess it was because of bug which ignored 200 biomass requirement for UE and morphed it on 100.
Now when I try it on live I am literally getting wrecked on regular basis if ally is not carrying early. I’m using a lot of toxic nests, luring the enemies, full double biomass mastery, collecting everything with individual units and still not enough biomass. Never experienced any problems with Abathur, but struggle now.
Getting UE is super slow, you have to sacrifice symbiont strength for more biomass or it will be even slower, if you try to build more units to not die to first serious wave process of getting UEs will slow down extremely because of random units collecting biomass unintentionally and regular units are much weaker due to biomass nerf.
Abathur had the only weak place - early game, before you get 6 UEs and this prestige hits him right in the nuts while buffing lategame where Abathurs was one of, if not the strongest.
Some of ways of making Limitless viable I can think of:
- Reduce requirement for UE from 200 to 150. Biomass effectiveness for regular units adjust accordingly.
- Biomass requirements for UEs stays 100 but symbionts disabled or some nerf to stats.
- Biomass requirement stays 100 but morphing UE costs 100/100 and additional supply (6 minus initial supply of unit).
What are your thoughts on this, does Limitless work for you as it is now?
Maybe some tips or advices what could be changed in gameplay comparing to vanilla Abathur to increase its effectiveness?
2 Likes
I think the amount is always needing an adjustment.
I don’t have p3 atm, so I’m not going to say one way or another until I’ve tested it more extensively.
That said, I did play PTR and it is 2x biomass, so people shouldn’t have any misconceptions about it for sure.
I think it should be
-Biomass is 1/2 as effective (like now)
-It costs 150 for an UE (and 150 is the max)
-Abathur is limited to 75 supply
(so a maxed out non UE only gets ~75% of the bonus they would otherwise)
(haven’t played it, but I think that would help a little bit of early game while making sure the late game doesn’t get too out of hand)
2 Likes
The greatest limitation of UEs is their lack of sustain
Unlike abathurs regular units, Brutalisk get whittled down until they eventually die (and dropping 0 biomass), and with Limitless at work every loss of biomass hurts.
This is such that base Abathurs vile roaches with 100 biomass are far more effective than Brutalisks, whilst having only half their requirement.
The only units that I have managed to successfully mass are Leviathan, and even then it was only possible on dead of night, delaying the full clear.
Overall, I think a slight reduction in biomass cost would be good for this prestige, as it it a prestige which actively hinders Abathurs ramp up, and is super niche at best atm
4 Likes
I think they went about it the wrong way. It should be “takes 50 biomass to get UE” and “biomass half as effective”.
So even more detriment to biomassing regular units but the whole point is to push out more UE.
Granted that number isn’t set in stone but idea is there (75 maybe is more appropriate).
This prestige and HH’s P3 seem like peas in a pod - a fun thing to mess around with, but almost strictly worse than vanilla. The maps are simply not long enough. HH’s is even worse because the only map that has no time limit is DoN so it really makes no sense to build 20 strike platforms when 10 could end the game way earlier.
I think a better version of Abathur P3 would be not changing the biomass requirements, but reducing the HP of EU’s. Get a horde of more fragile brutalisks.
2 Likes
I think a better thing (in both cases) would be to keep the increased cost, but make the end unit better…
ie give strike fighters ability to hit air
maybe give UEs better sustain (heal while their carapace is up?)
Each additional evolution should cost extra. This way you can get your 1st with 100 biomass, 2nd/3rd with 125/150 biomass. When you go beyond original 6 it starts to get expensive. Cap biomass at ~250 for evos from 7 onward.
1 Like
If that’s the case, maybe a slower ramp, otherwise what’s the point in paying for extra before the 6 and basically getting way too expensive by the 7th xD.
Like a +10 or something, that’s still (10, 20, 30, 40, and 50, an extra 100 to get the 6th), call it flexibility in 6 x brut vs levi. Then 160 and onwards for 7th and so forth. Still quite the hefty price but less crazy expenses.
The savings compare to current version is still huge in terms of moving towards a “fair-er price”.
1 Like
At times it’s painful enough to get 6 UE on default, so no thanks to double bio mass requirements with less power.
1 Like
It also brings to point one key aspect for sustain for Abathur is his units evolving to replace lost UEs
The UEs that die out get replaced quickly by max HP replacement Brutalisk from the rest of your army
However here they do not get the opportunity to do so as they usually evolve right away when they reach the required biomass
This strongly hinders their pushing power as they block each other very often.
Atm I see it as a great addition primarily when your ally can provide you support with additional biomass, otherwise it is not good for solo Abathur
2 Likes
ok…revised penalty
biomass 1/2 as effective
150 biomass for UEs
100 max supply
bonus
UEs unlimited
UEs available from L1
UEs regenerate at 7 hps (in +out of combat)
2 Likes
Love to see
Biomass cost is 125
Require additional 300 mineral and 150 gas for brutalisk
200 mineral and 200 gas for Leviathan
Not every prestige has to be strong (or even viable) if it at least fulfills a fantasy, but even there Limitless doesn’t deliver?!
Because once you get your Brutalisk army done you realize that they actually nerf each other due to their massive size.
I wonder if this would be fun / interesting / viable:
UEs require 50 Biomass
Damage and health reduced by 50%
Size reduced by 50%
Base-Symbiote efficiency reduced by 50%
Limitless UEs (unchanged)
Brutalisk ranged Anti-Air attack is used for melee as well
So you could basically create a limitless army of small Ultimate Evolutions! Could that be fun?
i am ok with the health reduction but damage reduction is a no for me because of how armour works and damage is calculated in Starcraft.
And about the Symbiote, i would prefer we double the cooldown of symbiote’s ability.
you have to micro units back and let it heal like you do in warcraft 3 and have a designated group for picking up bios.
i dont know what you guys are doing but i can carry abathur on brut easily w/ limitless since the you can get +6 easily mid game from 7-11min. brut plus is manageable too if the mut is good for aba
aba is still pretty face roll to play optimally compare to like kerrigen or zegara
People be like, “Oh unlimited UE? Let’s A-move. Dang it dies? This sucks. Bad prestige!”
Yeah, micro your stuff lol. Even as standard Abby, you can’t just rush in aimlessly. That’s the entire point of why they nerf’d their symbiote in the first place. A-move is only possible if you either:
- Get enough UE to overwhelm
- Get enough Queens to sustain
Otherwise, enjoy seeing those 200biomass evaporate.
Aba would be face roll compared to Kerrigan and Zagara if he gets 6 UEs for free on 4:00 minute mark or a building that spawns free UE every minute or so.
Also, do you by any chance have some replays of carrying by Limitless Abathur againt Sky Terran or Robo Toss? I’d like to see that, maybe learn something new.
Lol, speedruns get 6 ultimates around 6-8 minutes under ideal conditions, and you’re saying you’re doing it with p3.
5 Likes
why would i speed run with abathur to begin with? if i want to speed run ill just run zag and even that is map dependent.
if you play with rando with abathur on void thrashing it’s going to take at least 15min to finish and it takes 7-11 min depending on the waves dunno why you throw word into my mouth saying it takes 6-8 min