No. This is the dumbest thing I’ve ever read. Overwatch is a game where teamwork matters more than almost any other game.
You will never be able to 1v6 as any hero let alone Widowmaker.
Overwatch League is a bubble that does not translate to ladder play.
6 months ago, Widow players were claiming that she was in a terrible spot, and almost everyone agreed.
Nothing changed with Widow. She’s still in a terrible spot, but she’s getting a bunch of playtime because all heroes that eclipsed her have been brought down to her level by the simple addition of having a hard counter.
The cooldown reduction was not to improve her usability and survivability, it was literally added in response to the fact that her grappling hook literally (not figuratively, literally) does not work half of the time leading to her death even when specifically saved for escapes.
It still operates this way, to the point where if you watch OWL pros, they literally aim at the ground a few feet away and slingshot “bunny hop”, instead of using it the way it was intended. That technique has been copied all the way across the ladder since it started becoming publicized… which makes it seem like she’s constantly escaping (she isn’t).
Her grappling hook still has over 5 bugs associated with it, and Blizzard is 5 months past due on a status update.
She has not been particularly strong against coordinated teams anywhere in Overwatch’s lifespan.
She simply isn’t facing her counters anymore because people are hivemindedly believing that Brigitte magically nullifies Tracer/Genji (she doesn’t, Tracer and Genji can kite), and don’t want to run Dive for completely unknown reasons (despite Winston and D.Va retaining the highest pickrates in GM).
Widow is, and has always been, in a weird not-very-good state since her nerfs in June 2016. She has always sat in C-Tier, with outliers constantly getting publicity. Her buffs have been largely ineffective in doing anything from raising her from C-Tier to B-Tier.
People this season are disproportionately re-writing the entire tier list and placing her on top at A-Tier, despite literally nothing changing about her balance – Winston and D.Va still counter her, there’s a new barrier character added to the roster, and all of the other heroes that Widow used to be definite hard counters, have had power creep to make their matchup against her significantly more favorable.
She’s still C-Tier. All of the A-Tier heroes have been knocked down a few pegs. She’s still C-Tier.
Team work doesn’t make the one shot sniper rifle any less one shot lol.
You also don’t really need to 1v6 to win a team fight by yourself. Normally a pick or two is all it takes to win a team fight.
Characters don’t need to be changed for their place in the META to shift.
The smallest projectiles in the game are tree trunks? Why should I give your complaints any credence when you don’t seem to have any knowledge about the game you’re playing?
Historically, this is untrue.
Kaplan can tout his “organically shifting meta” all he wants, but only one hero has survived and successfully risen out of a B-Tier or C-Tier despite not being touched… and that hero is Tracer.
All other heroes have required a substantial buff in order to see a measurable and noticeable increase in viability;
- Zenyatta +50 HP, no spread on right click
- Mercy movement/self-heal/increased healing to become a routine main healer, post-Ana release
- D.Va Defense Matrix on RMB instead of E
- Winston shield cooldown being shortened by up to 8 seconds, causing Dive to dominate
- Rein hammerswing buff after a month of bugs
- Pharah knockback changes, aerial changes
- Sombra hack (notice how she immediately dropped in usage after the 2 second Hack interrupt was introduced)
- Hanzo’s Storm Arrow
- before this, Hanzo’s projectile speed buffs, and the ability to attack straight out of wallclimb instead of having to redraw an arrow
Since launch, Widow has not gotten substantial buffs to raise her out of C-Tier status. If anything, she’s still barely recovering from the power she lost at launch.
Her nerfs in June 2016;
- global ultimate callout
- ultimate cost increased
- 150 damage > 120 damage
- forced descope timer (a literal order of magnitude slower)
- forced descope timer nerf made her easier to hit by making it impossible for her to switch between fast and slow movespeeds at a moment’s notice (exactly like Soldier, Lucio, Ana, D.Va, Rein, Orisa)
- forced descope timer nerf halved her average DPS
- forced descope timer slows the time a player can change between regular unscoped sensitivity and zoom sensitivity, futzing with long-time-sniper aim
Her buffs since then;
- no self-damage from mine
- Widow-only wallhacks on mine activation (which can be cleansed immediately on health packs)
- slight scope timer buff (0.5s > 0.33s)
- slight scope charge buff (1.0s > 0.75s)
- grapple hook 12s > 8s (which might be considered a substantial buff except every Widow player knows it is STILL buggy and Blizzard has zero interest in acknowledging, or fixing it despite a megathread analyzing those bugs).
Bugs discovered since her nerfs;
- Over 19 documented bugs that limit Widow’s effectiveness on a game-per-game basis - Widow Bug/Issue Megathread w/ Video Examples (updated? 25 January 2019)
Power creep since Widow got her scope-timer buff;
Every matchup Widow has against those heroes has been made more difficult for her, and yet people still have the gall
People have been repeating ad nauseum, for almost 2 years now, that you can’t touch Widow or else she’ll be overpowered, yet we have the receipts that show Widow has been in C-Tier (and lower) for nearly 20 months.
Now, she’s finally seeing some usage because people don’t know who else to run in the face of a Crowd Control meta, and suddenly she’s A-Tier?
She’s not in a better spot. She’s right where she was before. She’s not suddenly A-Tier.
She’s still C-Tier, and now everyone flocking to her because she plays at distance because that means Brigitte can’t stun them.
They’re calling her hook cooldown powerful, despite all of the below;
Grappling Hook Issues
Super-cut of the grappling hook monstrosity - fix the grappling hook - YouTube
Another one - Widowmakers hook is working as intended - YouTube by Reddit user /u/xShadowWulfx
Grappling Hook does not connect to certain walls, at all
7.1 GIF by brokenstyli | Gfycat - Chateau Guillard
7.2 Gibraltar Rock Face GIF by brokenstyli | Gfycat - Watchpoint Gibraltar
7.3 GIF by brokenstyli | Gfycat - Ilios RuinsGrappling Hook auto-aim is a nightmare
8.1 Map Prop Autoaim GIF by brokenstyli | Gfycat - Ilios Ruin floodlight
8.2 Picket Fence GIF by brokenstyli | Gfycat - King’s Row picket fence
8.3 Phone Booth Grapple GIF by brokenstyli | Gfycat - King’s Row phone booth
8.4 Phone Booth Again GIF by brokenstyli | Gfycat - King’s Row phone booth 2
8.5 Defender Spawn Kings Row Grapple GIF by brokenstyli | Gfycat - King’s Row Defender final spawn
8.6 Building Kings Row Grapple GIF by brokenstyli | Gfycat - King’s Row building
8.7 Floaty Platform Route 66 GIF by brokenstyli | Gfycat - Route 66 floating platforms don’t have autoaim
8.8 Floating Platform Volskaya Grapple GIF by brokenstyli | Gfycat - Volskaya floating platforms don’t have autoaim
8.9 Traincar Grapple GIF by brokenstyli | Gfycat - Route 66 boxcar
8.10 GIF by brokenstyli | Gfycat - Oasis Garden spawn door
8.11 Hollywood Grapple GIF by brokenstyli | Gfycat - Hollywood streetlight
8.12 Overwatch 11 30 2017 1 01 14 PM (2) GIF | Gfycat - Hollywood Saloon roof
8.13 GIF by brokenstyli | Gfycat - Hollywood General Store roof
8.14 GIF by brokenstyli | Gfycat - Horizon catwalk (not typically an issue, but happened to run into this while recording another clip)
8.15 GIF by brokenstyli | Gfycat - Hollywood streetlight/lamppost has 5 auto aim spots in such close proximity that they could potentially conflict with someone’s intent to reach the balcony next to it Reddit user /u/MayaDementhiaGrappling Hook just gives up
9.1 GIF by brokenstyli | Gfycat
9.2 Widow's Grapple Hook is just #$%@ - YouTube - taken from YouTube OctopodiformGames
9.3 GIF by brokenstyli | Gfycat
9.4 GIF by brokenstyli | Gfycat
9.5 Twitch - Reddit user /u/segakuntvvGrappling Hook does not pull up-and-over ledges, it just drops Widow instead
10.1 Overwatch 10.11.2017 13 30 10 GIF | Gfycat - from Reddit /u/MariaMilissa
10.2 Carlos230496 GIF by brokenstyli | Gfycat - taken from YouTube Carlos Chavez
10.3 Grapple Hook Auto Aim No Swing Up-and-over GIF by brokenstyli | Gfycat
10.4 Drop Grapple GIF by brokenstyli | Gfycat
10.5 GIF by brokenstyli | Gfycat - Horizon Lunar Colony Point B crane, the one thing that should probably have auto-aim doesn’t… it just drops you every timeGrappling Hook will unintuitively slingshot Widow in the wrong direction
11.1 Twitch
11.2 Twitch
11.3 Vlc-record-2017-12-03-11h04m30s-Overwatch 11.25.2017 - 15.39.59.14.DVR.mp4- GIF | Gfycat - Reddit user /u/namdo
Not exactly a bug, but the Grappling Hook whip animation was removed
As of Lunar New Year 2018, the Grappling Hook whip animation has been reintroduced into the game.Grappling Hook animations will very rarely redirect mid-cast
13.1 Grapple Redirect GIF by brokenstyli | GfycatGrappling Hook auto-aims to sliding ledges… what’s the point of autoaiming to the sliding battlements of Eichenwalde, if you can’t stand on them? (shown with Pharah because of hover jets)
14.1 GIF by brokenstyli | Gfycat - Eichenwalde
14.2 Hollywood Street Light Slide GIF by brokenstyli | Gfycat - Hollywood Street Lights
14.3 GIF by brokenstyli | Gfycat - Numbani Street LightsPoint blank Grapple Hooks are supposed to reset the cooldown… they sometimes don’t
15.1 GIF by brokenstyli | Gfycat
15.2 GIF by brokenstyli | Gfycat
Don’t make me laugh. She’s still C-Tier.
Don’t get me wrong, there are some amazing Widow players out there, but she’s still C-Tier.
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Learn to read.
It’s still the difference between, “Okay, close enough here’s 2x the damage”, and pixel perfect accuracy.
Remembering that this was a thing to begin with truly pains me.
Oh, I know how to read. I read your OP, and noticed you were completely wrong about something and yet brazenly acting as though your ideas were worth considering.
I didn’t look through the thread beyond that OP, because why would I? If you want people to take your ideas seriously, don’t start off with blatant misinformation about something that has been common knowledge for months.
And she’s also the third/second highest picked DPS in ladder play over the last 6 months/week respectively.
Okay, but if that method is enough for them to get away, then it’s still a powerful ability whether it’s buggy or not. And reducing the cooldown is a substantial buff, whether it’s buggy or not.
Also!
Absolutely was to buff her survivability.
… I was referring to overwatch league. She’s strong there so… she’s strong against coordinated teams.
Well first off, she was strong even when dive WAS a thing.
Second of Winston and D.Va are no longer the highest picked in GM. In fact they have half the pickrate of Widowmaker this week (Month goes into the last patch, before Brigitte annihilated them)
She got a 4 second grapple buff. That’s a balance change, and a pretty big one.
Yeah. And the reason you get those gold tier winstons, D.Vas, Genji’s, and Tracers harassing you so effectively is because you’re also gold tier and don’t know how to stop/avoid them doing that.
Widow requires a lot of skill to be effective.
If you don’t have that skill, you’re not going to be effective. Recognize that, accept it.
Then perhaps you can acknowledge she is a strong hero if you do have that skill.
Honestly, I don’t. But I know others who do.
Cool. Shut up nerd. no one cares.
The way to stop it is to beg your teammates to pick reaper, or switch off Widowmaker.
That’s fine, I’ll take my leave. It’s your thread after all.
Just one more reminder that this OP of this thread has no knowledge of very basic facts about the game he is talking about, so any thoughts he is sharing regarding character balance or possible gameplay changes should be taken with a particularly large grain of salt. Alright, bye!
Yeah sorry man. I didn’t actually read this or the post before. It just didn’t seem relevant or necessary after I gained this preconceived notion that I didn’t like you and that I wanted you to shut up.
The way to not die as a hero is to get better at that hero.
If you don’t want to do that don’t play the hero.
Oh, I thought I made it pretty clear that I was speaking to everyone else in the thread, not you.
You probably shouldn’t respond to this post if you genuinely want me out of your thread though. I believe it’s rude to not respond to someone talking to you.
Yes sure, but one tricking widow for 300 hours and refusing to switch is exactly how you don’t become anything other than gold. I can serve as living proof to that example.
You can probably play 600% harder. Do Adderall. Take other drugs, etc., and drop the entire enemy team dead, bet that’s not how you’re supposed to play Overwatch.
If a Winston or a DVA is constantly up your butt while you are playing Widow, the solution isn’t play more Widowmaker, that’s stupid, and that’s exactly why people hate one tricks so much because they don’t switch and they don’t realize that.
Well… Yeah…
But if you’re trying to get BETTER at a hero, you need to learn how to not instantly die to anything that breathes on you.
Because even if you do swap as soon as you die, the longer it takes for them to kill you the more work you can be doing for your team by being alive and shooting things.
Getting better at a hero does not require you to be playing them all the time. If you’re thinking about how better to respond to a situation between games you can improve.
And if you just get good enough at widowmaker that Gold winstons and tracers don’t know how to kill you… then you’ll be able to no longer stay in gold.
Only in Master and Grandmaster. In all other tiers, Widow is not the 3rd most picked.
In Diamond, Hanzo, McCree, Genji, and Tracer are above Widow.
Floor-grappling ten feet isn’t enough to get away by itself.
You either need pocket heals, or to grapple to a location with a health pack that allows you enough time to survive for a healer to come to you.
Here’s the thing about Blizzard.
Their communication about Widowmaker has been both rocky, and infrequent.
The cooldown reduction was a compensation for a buggy hook. It has always been perceived this way. We literally asked for a shorter cooldown (for 6 months straight) as compensation for the buggy hook, got it, and then realized we shouldn’t even be dealing with a buggy hook.
Any effect the buff had on Widowmaker, was virtually non-existent.
Before Hook buff
- 1.63% pickrate, 46.11% winrate, 7th most picked DPS hero
After Hook buff
- 1.64% pickrate, 46.18% winrate, 7th most picked DPS hero
Source - Overbuff & Wayback Machine
As I said before, historically, all other huge buffs have an immediately observable impact on the hero in question.
The cooldown isn’t enough to substantially bring up her viability.
No, she wasn’t.
Season 3 was the season when she was theoretically strongest because none of the power creep had bled into the game, and she had just gotten a buff before the season started. And it was still her worst season because of Triple Tank.
Then powercreep bled through, and with the rise of Dive Comp, S4-S9, she was routinely shut down, harassed by up to 4 dive-y, mobile enemies at a time.
Season 4
- 3.61% pickrate, 45.91% winrate, 6th most picked DPS hero
Season 5
- 1.63% pickrate, 46.11% winrate, 7th most picked DPS hero
Season 6
- 2.03% pickrate, 47.65% winrate, 7th most picked DPS hero
Season 7
- 2.26% pickrate, 48.21% winrate, 6th most picked DPS hero
Season 8
- 2.57% pickrate, 48.46% winrate, 6th most picked DPS hero
Season 9
- 2.68% pickrate, 48.74% winrate, 6th most picked DPS hero
Current Season
- 2.8% pickrate, 48.83% winrate, 6th most picked DPS hero
She has consistently been C-Tier, and her recent increase in Master+ have not at all made a dent in her C-Tier status.
That’s fair. But generally I expect everyone below diamond to think Widowmaker is a throw pick 100% of the time, hence why I used the highest level.
Again, doesn’t matter if they can survive.
I don’t recall this being the case, but alright I guess. Blizzard’s statement kinda contradicts it, but I guess I’ll take your word.
Not true. The first one that comes to mind as an example is D.Va, where she was considered a joke pick for a while except in Korea, where they figured out how to play her in an entirely different way to huge success.
Season 3 is not when she theoretically was the strongest… because she wasn’t the strongest then. There’s no theory in history.
As for her in dive… well it just ended, and she was/is still being used in OWL AGAINST dive to great success (aka where she can actually be utilized effectively. Yeah. I’m not saying Widowmaker is good at bronze. She isn’t. But in high tiers where people can actually play her? Yeah, she is.)
OWL players aren’t like the average joe. They also played sombra and doomfist but that doesn’t mean those heroes are useful.
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