Why are people still replying to this? This topic is dead and changed my mind long ago.
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With you on this one.
People think that if they can force people to play loosely around what they think is an ideal comp then suddenly their games will be much better. It never occur’s to anyone that the only element that is constant in their games is them.
Want to climb? How about you pick something that synergizes with someone elses pick? How about you take the first step and do everything within your power to enable someone else to work?
I remember so many times where my team was being rolled and I switched not to COUNTER the enemy team but to ENABLE someone who was struggling and suddenly we started reversing the roll.
With locked 2-2-2 I will not have the complete freedom to do this.
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This applies to most of the rest of your post, but a critical element of 2-2-2 that you seem to be forgetting is that the game would be balanced around 2-2-2, and it would be easier to balance because every hero would be designed fully knowing what environment they’re playing into. This is just fearmongering that one team comp would “inevitably” take over.
Metas will happen. Metas will always happen. There will always be some strategies that are inherently working better than others, and that’s just how competitive games are. We currently have that exact problem now, where one style of play regularly dominates all others, but with a 2-2-2 environment, we’re much more likely to see a broader range of viable team comps, because heroes could be better balanced.
These heroes like Brig would be rebalanced to better fit their role. I would think this would be an obvious conclusion to make when discussing this topic, I mean, why would Blizzard just allow a character to be objectively useless? At least, any more so than they currently do? Brig has even been brought up specifically be developers as a character that would need refining, so they’re not deaf on this issue.
Again, 2-2-2 means the game is more easily balanced. Lots of heroes would probably have to get retuned, but that’s a small price to pay if it means far more heroes are viable at any given time.
Queue times would actually be improved for supports and tanks. It’s only DPS players that would look at long queue times, and this is assuming that there’s no change in the game’s culture when 2-2-2 goes live. The idea is that in the world of 2-2-2, more people would be willing to play tanks and supports, not only to avoid queue times, but because these players could actually engage with those roles at their appropriate ranks. A lot of DPS players simply don’t play tank or support because they know they’re bad at it and can never afford to practice those heroes in a proper environment – when they do, it’s regularly a bad experience, and they go on to not want to play those roles anymore.
So this is sort of a moot issue for the most part. Yes, it does suck for people who will stubbornly only play one role, but there would be a natural change in the culture of the game. People would be more encouraged to branch out from their regular roles and these queue times would start to be less startling.
And if there’s still a queue time issue, then DPS players may just need to rely more heavily on LFG than other roles.
This just seems like a weird exaggeration of what some people believe, this isn’t an argument. There are, indeed, some 2-2-2 games that feel bad, but the vast majority of bad feeling games are ones where teams feel like they never once had an established, conventional team comp. That, and if 2-2-2 was enforced, it isn’t like there’d be anything to compare it to other than radically different games from the past.
This doesn’t matter because every role would come with its own SR. This means if you’re a bad tank, you’ll be playing in lower ranks as tank, but if you’re an awesome support, you’ll be playing in higher ranks. There’d be drastically fewer times that you’re “underperforming” because you’d regularly be paired with equally skilled teammates for that role.
Roles would indeed be locked, so this is also a non-issue. If a Genji main wants to play Genji, then they have to wait in the DPS queue. There’d be no workarounds for this.
This again assumes that the meta would be immediately stale, and it’s based only on your perceptions of 2-2-2 comps that have been meta in an environment with no role locks.
Comps would actually be more creative because there’d be more viable heroes at any given moment. As it is right now, especially at the higher levels of play, you really can’t get “creative” with your team comps, because there’s specific team comps that teammates only want to see. Creativity currently is far too restricted because there’s heroes that objectively perform better than others, and people will always want to maximize their chances to win when given that freedom.
So again, 2-2-2 just makes this issue better, not worse. Sure, you’re not going to see 5-supports stacking everything on one DPS, but to be completely fair, 90% of the community never wants to see that happen, they never organize for it to happen, and it’s a small price to pay when you’re much more reliably getting into games with team comps everyone actually feels comfortable with.
This doesn’t solve any of the problems 2-2-2 is set to correct. Yes, people can currently force themselves to play 2-2-2, but that doesn’t matter when much of the meta is dictated by three-three. Not to mention, it isn’t just that people want their own teams to be 2-2-2, they want the environment to be 2-2-2. They want the game to be balanced around 2-2-2 because the game would be better balanced for it.
This is a problem that happens already, so why does 2-2-2 change anything? If anything, you’re far more likely to have a good hitscan DPS on your team with 2-2-2, since you’re more likely to end up with two people who actually want to play DPS and will likely have a hitscan hero under their belt. And if you do lose the dice roll and end up in this exact scenario… tough luck? I mean this is no different then if you get paired up with people who don’t play Rein, and you really need a Rein. This is just a natural problem that will happen if you ever rely on matchmaking.
Almost every point you brought up is an issue that 2-2-2 actually fixes. I really think you need to take a more critical look at the subject and at what people are suggesting, because these are surface level questions you’re proposing, and you’re not looking any deeper than that, hence why you have so many questions about “what would happen.” Follow the logic through to its conclusions and you see how 2-2-2 drastically improves the game environment.
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Would rather alt tab in a “long” 222 q Than waste time playing through a bunch of terrible games trying to find 11 other people all wanting to play a decent match.
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wrong, 2-2-2 needs to be implemented and there are ways to make so 2-2-2 isnt always locked while in game
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A locked 222 does away with one of the fundamental elements of Overwatch, its flexibility. In my opinion, instituting such a rigid framework would be to the detriment of the game.
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People said this EXACT thing when they got rid of hero stacking in ranked, and all of those people were wrong.
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A lot of the points made here are either assumptions or things wed have with or without 222.
I remain in favor of role queue
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Actually the nerfs she has been receiving went well past that she was a bit over tuned to OMG we have to stop her enabling GOATS. Which she still is good in because the fundamental utility she has was not changed and that’s what makes her usable in GOATS.
So 3-3 broke Brig in anything other then 3-3. Balancing around 2-2-2 would help her in this example.
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I don’t like the idea of 2-2-2 but would be happy to have it in for those that want it; as long as no limit classes is still opened for everyone else playing outside the proposed meta.
I don’t care if 2-2-2 brings the dawn of the end of the world. Overwatch as it is now sucks to play solo.
All the creativity people keep bring up mean nothing. All the creativity most people get is all dps and a healer if you have a Saint on your team.
Also, why do people think blizzard wouldn’t balance around 2-2-2, especially with it being easier to do so?
I make the Jackie Chan face everytime is see one of these threads. Do you guys even play overwatch?
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You’re forgetting ( or ignoring) the fact that jeff said if they do go 2-2-2 they want to put in role specific sr & they would have to rebalance most of the hero’s to make them viable.
So you cant really compare hero’s in their current state to what they would be in a role locked situation.
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Well if 222 becomes a thing Brigitte would be reworked to account for the new shift. She would still probably work as a counter to dive.
Countering dive also wasn’t impossible, it was just hard.
Can you elaborate why dive means hitscans are worse and pharmercy is better? I don’t know how that follows.
This is not a point. The developers already said she would be changed in the event of 222
Queue times already aren’t that bad, to me, but the elongated queue times are mainly for DPS.
And I’m also fairly certain that most people would trade a longer queue for a more fun experience in-game.
That’s not really an argument against 222 and doesn’t really illustrate why 222 is bad other than limiting the possible metas.
Unless there if a flex option. Also we don’t know if it would be role locked.
Yeah, it could be an issue, but there are benefits too. I think Jeff said that it would be easier to isolate your skill if you are only on one role in a game.
This is a concern and likely why the developers haven’t enacted it yet.
The thing is, the playerbase and pros are upset that this “Creative” composition (GOATS) has been wrecking everything.
The game is a lot harder to balance when you can have, 5 DPS or 3 tank or 4 support. This difficulty is what has created GOATS.
The reason people want 222 is to get rid of these compositions that are potentially unable to be balanced.
People want 222 in solo queue. They don’t want to wait through 2 queues effectively
I think this issue is getting solved actually.
There are supports and tanks that can help deal with Pharmercy and not all projectile DPS have extreme troubles with them
We already sometimes get two off-tank players
Brig Lucio can work btw, but any good support player will know to swap to a main support. Either way you can have the other teammates go more self-heal oriented.
The scenarios you described can already happen in the current matchmaking system. So, it stands to reason that, if we do 222 and limit the 5 dps compositions while still letting these exist, then we will overall have better compositions in-game right?
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the knockback changes basically deals with dive alone.
Why not have more competitive modes linked to one competitive SR. 2-2-2 mode. 3-3 mode. Tradional competitive. I guess it’s to hard to code.
No one likes any meta. 222 prevents metas from forming, and allows the components of existing metas to be properly balanced without having to consider how one hero will interact with 30 others.
These heroes can then be properly balanced.
We don’t know for sure what will happen. Maybe those DPS mains can try something else if the queue is too long.
Whatever it takes to be rid of 4+ potato DPS matches. Whatever. It. Takes. Because I am sick to death of these “creative” comps that involves insta locking DPS heroes and then begging everyone else to tank and heal.
It’s a good thing because the match will always be balanced. Besides, the chances of a DPS swapping to not DPS is pretty slim. I’m sure that people can at least finish a 5 ****ing minute match and then queue for something else next game. It’s a non issue.
I’d rather have that than 4 DPS plus Genji. What is preventing Genji from doing that already? Because right now, it already happens.
“Creative compositions” lead to terrible metas like goats or playing with 5 DPS players. Screw creative comps. The only place creative comps exist are on the forums. In game, it’s just everyone locking DPS.
No one is using LFG and there’s too many DPS. Tanks and healers are in short supply… so now it takes longer for DPS to find a group. and so why would a DPS use LFG when they can just have instant gratification? LFG defeated its own purpose. Not enough tanks and heals means not enough DPS looking means not enough people using it.
What if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if what if. No matter the situation, there should be someone on the team to deal with it. Why are we talking about off tank switching to deal with Pharah when it should be the DPS swapping to hitscan?
The fact of the matter is that these potato comps you’re “what iffing” already happen regularly, in nearly every game. But it doesn’t effect DPS mains because it’s tank and healer players that are tired of dealing with it. It’s just that right now, no one can deal with Pharah because we have Doomfist, Junkrat, Mei, Sombra, Lucio and Rein.
All you’ve said for the whole post is “what if.” People are assuming that the system will be bad, and it’s designed to screw DPS players. They’re afraid of what could happen, not what will actually happen.
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That would split the user base and make queue times for everything waaaaaay longer.
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If its tank-support-flex as 222 its still gonna be better than friiking 5 dps or even 6 dps games btw.
Were gonna get role que even how much you guys are saying that its ‘‘bad for this game’’ or ‘‘this thing will kill the game’’.
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Forced 2-2-2 would see a decline in the player population, which would be bad for the game.
Those saying “but they could balance around 2-2-2”, are you delusional? Do you have ANY concept of how much work would have to go into each and every hero, it would likely be months for each hero, and “balancing” one could unbalance another. Forcing “balance” around 2-2-2 would likely take years of work, so good luck seeing any new maps or heroes while they have to spend all their time working on hero balance. It always amazes me how ignorant people are of the consequences of changes they like.
So I agree with the OP, forced 2-2-2 WILL be bad for Overwatch, I’d certainly be looking towards that Uninstall button, and I pretty much never play DPS in any mode other than Total Mayhem/Mystery heroes. I like the option of choosing between tank and support in any given match to suit the circumstances. I don’t mind if my team wants to go 5 DPS and me as only support (or Hog), it’s their loss as well. I’ll just leave a sarcastic comment once we lose and go on to the next match.
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Shouldn’t this be in the pro column?
…and this, tbh.
1 Like