This forum refuses to accept healing as the games issue


#201

I’ll buy into any ‘truth’ that is backed up by data. Cold hard raw objective data that is collected over thousands (minimum) of matches representing the entire ladder. Then the conclusions drawn from the data as well as the raw data itself shared for peer review and debate.

Until then, it is just hot air on an internet forum.

In my profession (Information technology and data science) at my company we have a saying: ‘In God we trust, All others must bring data’.

I know how I ‘feel’ about specific balance issues based on my personal experiences. But, I am the first to tell you I am not an authority. To be authoritative - I need access to a massive amount of raw data and the sample sizes I have seen posted on these forums (rare!) is extremely small and contains more holes than a colander.


#202

easy fix: make all healing burst healing and remove sustained healing.

there… problem solved.

edit: removed sustained aoe healing: brig and lucio team heals are wat disable incidental damage from opening up teamfights


#203

Doubtful, considering GOATS is being run on ladder and among pros outside of OWL with Zen-Lucio-Ana.

Also, as Trogdor pointed out, if supports were really the issue, then 3-3 DPS/Support would be a plausible strategy. Outside of QP, it generally isn’t.

This thread is really just another petty “nerf Brigitte” gripe


#204

i just think healing per second needs to decrease when healing armor so that supports are more motivated to cooperate with DPS.


#205

Pretty much.

Like, i think certain DPS could use some buffs since some of them generally are supposed to counter tank heavy comps; Junkrat, Pharah, Mei, Sym, DF and Torb for example. BUT not to the point you buff their damage looks at FtH, but buff in other areas of their kits where they can be better in higher ranks.

Revert JR grenade hitbox back to 0.3, make Sym’s tp faster, make Mei able to reload in cyro and etc. Just give them buffs so they can be better used in higher ranks so they are more reliable against tank heavy comps.


#206

Good luck with that. Motivate DPS instead to not leave their supports to die.


#207

As a Mei main I have to say that she does not need to be more oppressive against tanks. She already is. Especially ever since she received piercing on her primary fire.


#208

Funny thing is lucio and zenyatta are meta because of their speed boost/discord and not their healing, i’d say goats is actually because of lucio and his speed boost even though i play him, goats only became a thing after the lucio aura buff, now all i ask is for them to revert the aura range buff and not throw another character in the trash because that’s how they’ve been handling all the game’s problems lately.


#209

Looks like you worked out why Brig even exists; DPS (Genji and Tracer) had too easy a time diving backlines and deleting supports with, often, (though not always) next to no counterplay.


#210

Welp. Reaper will never be viable for as long as Roadhog is and the weakness of many tanks is supposed to be their mobility… this is a non-issue with the brawler type dive tanks that exist in the game and when the immobile tanks are boosted with lucio’s speed boost.

i think it is possible we will be seeing a pretty big healing nerf and lucio speed boost becoming a personal ability in the future.


#211

one can only dream apparently. relax dude.

i think we have all learnt our lesson regarding AOE heals or abilities in general. I trust we (cough cough Devs) will not repeat it.


#212

But again, it depends on the buffs.

At best the buff I would be glad she receives is just a reload in cyro and thats it. Some people suggested that cyro or ice wall have some slow lingering effect if you go to near it, but thats debatable.


#213

I understand why people want this but I feel like to many characters are receiving this kind of change. There should be places in her kit that she can be easily punished for.

Mei, thrives in either 1v1 environments or when she either sets up her team to follow up on her actions or relies on her team to bail her out in situations where she is forced to cryo.

Cryo needs to stay as it is in my opinion because she needs to be punished if no help comes her way and she has overextended herself. Adding an auto reload in cryo heavily reduces risk on an already well designed kit for stalling and escape.


#214

It doesnt have to be instant, could just be slowly reloads like how her health recovers,

If we are talking how Cyro can punish her it already happens if she overextends, shes going to be heavily punished no less since, its pretty easy to gang up on a Mei solo cyro. Say lets say shes out of ammo and gains back half of it in cyro, comes out and she has to already deal with 3 enemies, which most of the time dont go well.

Cyro itself is already a risk since you let already cant move and inevitably allow enemies to approach you. The only way Cyro should ever punish Mei is if she overextends or shes out of position, which in most cases, regardless of her ammo, already happens even without that.


#215

Hey bud, there is a second side to this story.

Who has the HP to absorb high amounts of sustained damage, even bust damage, is it Tanks or DPS?

If you answered Tanks, then you’d be correct.

When watching GOATS in OWL this season, just look at how the tanks are constantly being cut down and healed back up.

If the healing is far more effective on Tanks than DPS, then there is no reason to run DPS.

Especially when the tanks have the sudo-Damage to compensate.

That’s why I, and many others, are pointing to tank damage being the primary problem.

Tanks should protect their team from damage, not be the ones who can dish out the damage. THAT is the power discrepancy.

The only exception would be hog, since he traded every bit of defensive capabilities for offensive ones.

But even then, Orisa, Hammond, Winston, even Dva all have balanced Damage.

Rein has far too much leniency with his damage, and Zarya keeps hers too easily after her energy drain compensation buff.

That’s why GOATS hasn’t died yet, and it’s why those 2 are problematic on ladder play.

It’s time to tone back the heros who are clearly too strong.


#216

It wasn’t you know. The idea WAS, that he could put a sonic arrow on a corner, and then shoot people hiding around it by bounding off the back wall.

That was the plan for it. It never worked as designed.

It wasn’t built to wreck tanks.


#217

In the end it has a similar effect though. It removes one of the punishable aspects of her kit. Which is if she is forced to cryo at the end of her ammo reserves.

Removing that aspect means one less thing a player has to track and kind of lowers the skill ceiling for the character while making an already good stall/escape character better at it. Something I just do not think she needs.

Does not go well currently. However, you underestimate the power of her primary when it is loaded. If she has enemies after her and she takes the proper angles the piercing of her primary can allow for some HEAVY stall. Which often buys a good mei the time she needs to get her wall off cooldown.

How do I know? I do it all the time currently because I typically time my reloads and cryo’s pretty well.

Adding a reload feature (instant or otherwise) would make her far less punishable in a situation she should be punished in. I am not saying she will always make it out alive. However, I am saying she will likely live way more often then she should in a scenario she should be punishable in.

But what you are not understanding is that a Mei who CURRENTLY preserves ammo and times reloads already is far less punishable. Which adds a certain level of game sense and skill to her kit. Adding a reload feature during cryo reduces her skill ceiling and puts her stalling at to high a factor.

She is already in a good spot. Removing a skilled facet of her kit is not advisable.


#218

Mm…

The devs made a statement about this already. I cared too much so I dug and found it for you.

Timothy Ford: Scatter Arrow was designed to melt tanks in the first place. However, it didn’t feel great to be killed by it in the actual game. It felt like you don’t get why you died? There were times players couldn’t accept it.

Timothy Ford: To go into details, we’ll be keeping the damage as it is; we are aiming to change it to some other form that the person hit can accept. It would be more advantageous for players with good aim, I guess? It will be changed so that even if you do get killed, you’d approve of your opponent’s good aim.

Source:
ht tps://www.invenglobal.com/articles/4865/interview-with-overwatch-dev-timothy-ford-regarding-symmetra-turning-into-a-defense-hero-and-the-channel-system

Echoes from the past…

Strategically bouncing arrows off of a wall to hit enemies around corners or even off ceilings to catch Pharah were certainly fun moments in my Hanzo life but the fact is, the right way to use it was to slap it right in front of the shins of an enemy.


#219

Crippling or reducing healing, reduces the effectiveness of all the other compositions as well. It won’t be enough to eliminate goats, and it will make many team comps considerably less effective.


#220

Agreed, but still: Tank damage would be fine if it was limited by short range. DPS would be able to cut them down before they could engage. The real problem is tank damage plus speed boost, removes that inherent limitation. There is no such thing as “long range” when you can close distance fast enough.