This forum refuses to accept healing as the games issue


#1

I have seen people blaming tanks for doing too much damage.

Tank damage is irrelevant to this meta. Not even dps can kill things in goats. Much less tanks.

How often do you see things dying right now?

What is happening is that no one in the game can kill anything through Brigitte triple support. So load up the tankiest composition possible and press that advantage further.

Right now, team fights are two goats teams on top of each other until the first zarya gets grav to force beat out of lucio and then hopefully the rein can get a shatter.

It is not that tanks are so good at securing kills that they pushed dps out of the meta. It is that brig triple support has so much sustain that it’s not even worth it to TRY for kills. Your only option is to force beat and combo grav+dva bomb first


#2

The forums have steadfast views on how ‘balanced’ Zen and Lucio are, good luck trying to spread the truth.


#3

What you’re saying is true, however healing is not the only issue.

Yes, stacking the potential healing of 3 healers is massive, but combined with the tanks’ big healthpool and damage is what is causing GOATS to dominate.

Think about it, if the tanks didn’t so as much damage, you will need dps to kill people effectively.


#4

But the tanks aren’t killing anyone either. Tank damage is completely irrelevant.

The only way to secure kills is 2 ultimates at the same time right now.


#5

It’s not really healing itself, though. If it was the healing that was too strong, then:

  1. The popular GOATS would probably have Ana/Moira/Brig instead of the three lowest output healers in the game.
  2. Brigitte would not be as prominent since her largest output healing is on a 6 sec CD. You could just call that out and then pounce when she doesn’t have it. And bait it out, and all that other fun stuff.

It’s more utility that’s strong right now.

You pick Zen, Lucio, and Brig as your three supports because of utility and synergy. Not because of healing.

Zen’s there because Discord makes the tanks a little more squishy.

Speed Boost has always been good with tanks so Lucio’s there.

And Brigitte is the perfect off-support to have with Reinhardt. Plus, she makes it more difficult to focus the other supports.

The tanks are killing each other. It’s just that Shatter or Grav follow-ups are always more convincing and efficient victories, but it’s always been that way.

So before I ramble on too much, here are my closing statements.

First, it’s not healing that’s OP. Healing itself is fine. It’s utility that makes up GOATS. Utility and synergy. If healing was what made GOATS strong, we’d have a main healer. But the most popular variant of GOATS doesn’t.

Secondly, even if healing was an issue, it wouldn’t be the only issue. GOATS has always been a sort of domino effect of balance decisions made on top of one another that lead up to everything that makes up GOATS. And everything that makes up GOATS is every mistake in the balancing that they’ve made.

That includes Brigitte and nerfing her more than they needed to. That includes making one-shot DPS stronger like Hanzo and Doomfist and then having to buff supports to keep up. That includes nerfing Mercy’s healing. It’s not just exclusive to support balancing.


#6

It is not that raw healing is op. If you tried to run moira ana mercy the other team would just dive. And kill them all.

It is specifically Brigitte that is OP, because she makes 3 supports possible without being too squishy.

Because the issue with goats is not that the tanks are too hard to kill. The issue with goats is that the supports are too hard to kill.

A tank/healer/dps hybrid is probably OP by design. But if they removed her armor pack OR her aura it might be able to be balanced. Steady sustained heals and the best burst heal in the game built into the hardest hero to kill in the game could be a problem. But who could have seen that coming?


#7

I wish the piano of the new map came crashing down on you to enlighten your mood.

Hope it even plays Darude sandstorm while you gotten yourself a concussion,


#8

I’m fine. I’m just trying to help this place understand what isn’t happening


#9

Pretty much. It’s less:

This forum refuses to accept healing as the games issue.

And more:

This forum refuses to accept any healer that isn’t Mercy or Brig as the games issue.


#10

Well, Lucio’s and Brig’s healing are stacking.
That’s enough and strong heal.


#11

See, I’ve never understood why people say this. I’ve always seen her as an off-tank/off-support hybrid. She can tank and she can heal, but you don’t want her to be the only one in that role. That’s why she only really works in 3-support comps. You’re not picking her for the DPS slot because you aren’t running 2-2-2 and Brigitte’s focus really isn’t on dealing damage. In that case, you may as well say Zarya fills the other DPS slot. But she isn’t because she’s a tank.

I don’t see her as filling a DPS role. It’s just that she fills the off-roles of both tank and support, and the off-roles are known for supplementing damage and utility to make up for their lack of tanking/healing.

And if that’s what you mean, then maybe instead make the claim that this forum refuses to accept Brigitte as the game’s issue? Instead of lumping all other supports into the pile since I don’t think Moira or Mercy need nerfs. Pretty sure we can all agree on that, at least. The rest are up for debate.


#12

Yeah, but not as much as a biotic orb + biotic grenade + Moira spray + Ana shots stacked on top of each other… I think the point is that it’s not ‘huge heals’ that’s OP, and making supports heal less won’t fix the problem.


#13

Well yeah like half the forums are support mains who are constantly having their mains powercreeped because Blizzard doesn’t know how to balance.

Supports are definitely the issue though.


#14

No, it is not exclusively healing. If it were then tanks would not be part of this. Dps would be a better choice since tanks damage is lower.

What enables goats and other support heavy comps is massive healing in combination with massive amounts of DAMAGE MITIGATION. The fact that tanks are able to avoid instant death from one shot mechanics, mitigate and prevent damage to themselves and others around them, and also control the enemy movement through CC abilities .

BOTH enable each other. Its a symbiotic relationship. You are just fooling yourself if you think otherwise.


#15

I do not believe they are super balanced; however, tanks are still the issue. I could care less which of the two they nerf as I am a DPS main and do not really like having Zen or Lucio on the team unless they coordinate, which is like never around plat/diamond. So if they want to gut those two only to find out that tanks were the real issue and nerf those as well, kewl. If they keep them the same and nerf tanks, I am down for that. If they go the forum route and nerf Widow, I am going to baby rage.


#16

What is op is that you can’t kill the supports. If you can’t kill any supports you can’t kill anything.


#17

Just delete brig to severely weaken the utility of GOATs omegalul


#18

GOATS is possible only because of Brigitte’s burst healing. Remove that and the meta will change. She can burst-heal tanks just quickly enough to prevent them from dying when combined with Lucio and Zen.

Burst :clap: healing :clap: = :clap: tank :clap: meta :clap:


#19

How are the tanks the issue? The issue is that nothing is dying.

If the tanks were the issue, quad tank would be meta. Triple tank has never been meta except when a healer is OP.

Triple tank and 2 supports is a weak composition because you can just dive the supports and kite the tanks.

The issue is that if you can’t kill the supports you can’t kill anything.

Watch the owl games. It is two goats teams slamming into each other with no one dying until one team gets grav+bomb. And even then they don’t always kill someone.

Brigitte triple support makes the make line unkillable. THAT is the issue and the only issue


#20

While healing is certainly part of the issue, tanks are dealing more damage than dps. Supports can’t. The only support who breaks the 9k is Zen. And that’s still lower than Rein’s damage output.