This forum refuses to accept healing as the games issue

General Discussion
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I understand why people want this but I feel like to many characters are receiving this kind of change. There should be places in her kit that she can be easily punished for.

Mei, thrives in either 1v1 environments or when she either sets up her team to follow up on her actions or relies on her team to bail her out in situations where she is forced to cryo.

Cryo needs to stay as it is in my opinion because she needs to be punished if no help comes her way and she has overextended herself. Adding an auto reload in cryo heavily reduces risk on an already well designed kit for stalling and escape.

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It doesnt have to be instant, could just be slowly reloads like how her health recovers,

If we are talking how Cyro can punish her it already happens if she overextends, shes going to be heavily punished no less since, its pretty easy to gang up on a Mei solo cyro. Say lets say shes out of ammo and gains back half of it in cyro, comes out and she has to already deal with 3 enemies, which most of the time dont go well.

Cyro itself is already a risk since you let already cant move and inevitably allow enemies to approach you. The only way Cyro should ever punish Mei is if she overextends or shes out of position, which in most cases, regardless of her ammo, already happens even without that.

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Hey bud, there is a second side to this story.

Who has the HP to absorb high amounts of sustained damage, even bust damage, is it Tanks or DPS?

If you answered Tanks, then you’d be correct.

When watching GOATS in OWL this season, just look at how the tanks are constantly being cut down and healed back up.

If the healing is far more effective on Tanks than DPS, then there is no reason to run DPS.

Especially when the tanks have the sudo-Damage to compensate.

That’s why I, and many others, are pointing to tank damage being the primary problem.

Tanks should protect their team from damage, not be the ones who can dish out the damage. THAT is the power discrepancy.

The only exception would be hog, since he traded every bit of defensive capabilities for offensive ones.

But even then, Orisa, Hammond, Winston, even Dva all have balanced Damage.

Rein has far too much leniency with his damage, and Zarya keeps hers too easily after her energy drain compensation buff.

That’s why GOATS hasn’t died yet, and it’s why those 2 are problematic on ladder play.

It’s time to tone back the heros who are clearly too strong.

3 Likes
216

It wasn’t you know. The idea WAS, that he could put a sonic arrow on a corner, and then shoot people hiding around it by bounding off the back wall.

That was the plan for it. It never worked as designed.

It wasn’t built to wreck tanks.

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In the end it has a similar effect though. It removes one of the punishable aspects of her kit. Which is if she is forced to cryo at the end of her ammo reserves.

Removing that aspect means one less thing a player has to track and kind of lowers the skill ceiling for the character while making an already good stall/escape character better at it. Something I just do not think she needs.

Does not go well currently. However, you underestimate the power of her primary when it is loaded. If she has enemies after her and she takes the proper angles the piercing of her primary can allow for some HEAVY stall. Which often buys a good mei the time she needs to get her wall off cooldown.

How do I know? I do it all the time currently because I typically time my reloads and cryo’s pretty well.

Adding a reload feature (instant or otherwise) would make her far less punishable in a situation she should be punished in. I am not saying she will always make it out alive. However, I am saying she will likely live way more often then she should in a scenario she should be punishable in.

But what you are not understanding is that a Mei who CURRENTLY preserves ammo and times reloads already is far less punishable. Which adds a certain level of game sense and skill to her kit. Adding a reload feature during cryo reduces her skill ceiling and puts her stalling at to high a factor.

She is already in a good spot. Removing a skilled facet of her kit is not advisable.

218

Mm…

The devs made a statement about this already. I cared too much so I dug and found it for you.

Timothy Ford: Scatter Arrow was designed to melt tanks in the first place. However, it didn’t feel great to be killed by it in the actual game. It felt like you don’t get why you died? There were times players couldn’t accept it.

Timothy Ford: To go into details, we’ll be keeping the damage as it is; we are aiming to change it to some other form that the person hit can accept. It would be more advantageous for players with good aim, I guess? It will be changed so that even if you do get killed, you’d approve of your opponent’s good aim.

Source:
ht tps://www.invenglobal.com/articles/4865/interview-with-overwatch-dev-timothy-ford-regarding-symmetra-turning-into-a-defense-hero-and-the-channel-system

Echoes from the past…

Strategically bouncing arrows off of a wall to hit enemies around corners or even off ceilings to catch Pharah were certainly fun moments in my Hanzo life but the fact is, the right way to use it was to slap it right in front of the shins of an enemy.

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Crippling or reducing healing, reduces the effectiveness of all the other compositions as well. It won’t be enough to eliminate goats, and it will make many team comps considerably less effective.

1 Like
220

Agreed, but still: Tank damage would be fine if it was limited by short range. DPS would be able to cut them down before they could engage. The real problem is tank damage plus speed boost, removes that inherent limitation. There is no such thing as “long range” when you can close distance fast enough.

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Which is funny, because in the character design book they describe the reverse.

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It’s a combination of tanks doing too much damage, and healers healing too much.
Even if healers were nerfed, there is no reason for Zarya to be the best damage dealer in the game.

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I find it funny that everyone just scapegoats one specific part of GOATS, expect the one thats been the problem since Dive; Lucio and Zenyatta.

Discord with coordination is just too powerful, and adding speed boost alongside Discord and Coordination makes anything look OP.
Add alongside it, Zarya and Reins inherit synergy and powerful ULTs, D’va being really solid, and brig that syngergizes with rein, therefore synergizing with Zarya.

If they’re not going to nerf Lucio or Zen, then GOATS will always reign supreme, cause at the end of the day you cannot nerf coordination and hero syngery.
All you can do is keep adding more heros that either overlap Rein/Zarya/D’va/Brig, or are built from the ground-up to counter goats.

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224

There is a reason that I main a one shot hero smile

225

You do realize that their stacked healing is like, 33 hp/s…right? And occasionally it goes to 66 for like, 3 seconds. That’s two healers equaling less than a main healer most of the game (because lets face it; Amp it Up will most likely be used with Speed Boost active 90% of the game).

2 Likes
226

This. Why does Zarya, for example, who is a tank, out-range AND DPS Symmetra, who is a damage hero?

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227

Tank damage is part of the issue, when they have extra health, extra armor, and can do as much damage as a dps while being able to use things like shields or self-heals? You have an issue. Reduce tank damage and make dps actually relevant again, and perhaps in exchange give tanks more armor or base health to make up for the damage nerf. I see too many tanks being played in place of DPS (…cough… GOATS) or LIKE a dps rather than fulfill their protective role and can pull out all gold medals over high dps characters. Tank damage is not THE problem, just one of the main issues.

GOATS exists PURELY because tanks can outright replace DPS for how much damage they can do while having a ton of sustain/protection to cover for them. Period. The game is broken and unplayable when the dps class has been basically made obsolete by this crap.

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Or the fact that no matter who I pick, if it isn’t reaper or a CC (provided the CC isn’t on cooldown), if a winston jumps on me there’s nothing to be done about it because you can’t outrun his spray.

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Well at least your post gets attention.

Not the same thing, but every AoE heal DR thread I made died without any responses.

Well, whatever.

You can nerf heal stacking (DR kicking in at 2 AoE heals) and not nerf those heroes in other ways.

Lucio and Zenyatta are not OP, but heal stacking is. Giving Zenyatta (a glass cannon) a ton of survivability via peeling and Aoe heals makes him FAR more powerful.

His main weakness has always been mobility, but with 2 other supports that’s not an issue.

Stacking is the problem. The end.

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There is a reason I main Mercy :smile:

And if DPS weren’t making more damage, than they can take, there would simply be no need for Goats. But, with one-shot kills present, you would rather play it safe with tanks, than rely on DPS evading all shots like Matrix.

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231

Same argument, Lucio is healing and speedboosting at the same time with Amp running 24/7, because he doesnt make choices, and Amp isnt on a 15 second CD, and 40hp/sec group heals are plenty while Mercy’s 50 cant sustain a single person.

These forums are so schizophrenic

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232

How does this make sense though? Healing one teammate with 50 hps isn’t enough to sustain them, but 40 hps for whole group is a lot better?