The issue with "useless" Changes

I wanted to bring up some insight that i feel is what is causing a lot of problems in the game, and will continue to do so unless changed,

This is what i call, Useless changes, and it has to do with the developers balancing mindset,

What are “Useless” changes you say? They are changes that dont solve the heros issues, and are added just because, or the reason for them no longer makes sense, or never did in the first place

Lets imagine for example, we have these two example heroes

  • Hero A: Underpowered
  • Hero B: Overpowered

(this goes both ways)

Lets imagine that, Both heroes have damage issues, Hero B deals way too much damage, and hero A deals way too little,

Now, letssay that, to balance them, They increase heros A survivability, and decrease Heros B survivability as well,

Now, here is the problem, B is still dealing way too much damage, and A is still not dealing enough damage, Therefore, the survivability changes are useless,

Now, once we actually get to the problems both heroes problems, their damage, lets say that Hero B gets a 50% damage decrease and Hero A a 50% increase, Well now the roles inverse

  • Hero A ends up as Overpowered
  • Hero B ends up as Underpowered

Why? Simple, These stacked “useless” changes that were unecesary pushed them over the edge, not only B got his damage nerfed, but so his survivability, leaving him too weak, and not A got his damage buffed, but his surviviability again got buffed, Rendering him too strong for everyone,

Now that you get my example, onto more real examples,

Brig is one of the biggest examples of this, When released, a lot of people were shouting to cut her Aoe Healing down to stop goats, But initially

  • The devs Increased the cooldown of shield bash
  • The devs decreased her damage
  • The devs nerfed her rally
  • The devs buffed her Aoe healing

And i personally, in that specific situation consider those changes to be “useless” because at the current situation, the issue was not that brig was dealing too much damage as there were other damage dealers in the composition, the problem was still the aoe healing, and that was never really solved, therefore we have all of these nerfs stacked on top of the hero that werent helping,

Now, sure, you could argue that potentially brig would have needed a damage decrease in the future, and i can totally see that, but in that situation, what was causing the problem was the healing, therefore it had a higher priority

Another “useless” change was mccrees FTH buff, and, potentially, the newest firerate buff, This is a bit more of an opinion at this point and we still have to see the ramfications of the change, but, When you think of the problems with mccree, you think:

  • His ultimate is bad
  • He has no survivability
  • He also has no way to defend himself, nor mobility to escape
  • His flashbang doesnt work half the time

And, none of these issues were solved by the changes. Sure you could argue “hey, zen works for a reason and he has none of those”

Except he does, he has self sustain because of his shields, and also, zen potentially has infinite range, and a borderline upgraded fan the hammer which he can use to tear targets apart in a few seconds, and basically use it every time he wants, he also has his discord orb, but the most important that part is that his position as a Support makes sense in that context because supports almost always by design need Peel to help them,

Another infamous “useless” change was Reapers lifesteal change, I just have no clue why its still even at 40%, it still seems like a longshot to me, he could have used something else, like a new ability, some Anti heal passive on his gun (maybe like 50% less healing, idk)

And back to brig, the rally change is also useless, The rally change,

remember when rally max armor was changed from 150 to 100 and the reasoning given was “Because of its permanent nature, they wanted to reduce it”

Well…Rally is no longer permanent,so even if you agree with the change or not, It no longer makes sense

Another more recent one is also Torbs shotgun nerf, The devs explicitly said it was forthe lower ranks, because torb could just pop overload and melt the tanks…Buut they nerfed his shotgun…

If overload is the problem…Why not…Nerf overload…?

I feel like the balance of the game would get much better once we start adressing these changes that dont quite make sense, thanks for reading my long text lol

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They be like: It’s more fun to make the heroes insanely good and insanely trash at the same time.

So they can shut people up when they try and argue that X hero has no counter with “just exploit the worst shortcoming in their kit,”

And keep forums alive.

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i dont think thats the thing

i think that, they dont realize it, and just forget the changes they did before, its kind of their balance phylosophy at this point to rarely go back on their word

Well seems a little too easy for a ~100 member team who keep patch notes to forget all the changes doesn’t it?

High chance they just like making the game that way.

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i mean, they dont even do the patch notes in the first place so…

And keep people talking about Overwatch i.e. “engaged” isn’t it such a high IQ play of the Devs!

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Yeah they really like to mess with everything that isn’t the issue with a hero just to finally address as the last resort and thereby inverting the power of said characters.

This is why Blizzard has the rep of “passing around the OP baton”. Keep in mind that that they use the same strategy in WoW, so it’s what they are accustomed to. :rofl:

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You know I used to give them the benefit of the doubt on this, but with how every changes seems to follow the same formula; I think this is all deliberate as their way to “keep players engaged”.

Like many people they are slaves of concepts
Like people saying Snipers must oneshot

I see it so much in this community its amazing to me.

Potentially yeah it could be a cause of this, but it doesnt justify some changes they do

Thats sad if true


I also wanted to bump this thread while at it due to the mccree changes beeing directly cited and in my opinion not beeing necesary

The devs like balancing that way to make characters unique and it’s honestly a mistake to a substantial extent.

These were absolutely necessary regardless. It’s like your theoretical hero A was broken in like 5 different ways and had 3 nerfed.

This is keeping pace with powercreep. Nothing more and nothing less.

Actually useless.

They could have

But as mentioned on the OP the issue was the AOE healing on goats primarily, not any of the others

And the aoe healing issue was never solved, causing the devs to over compensate with other nerfs until the character would be dropped due to it beeing just bad at everything else but healing

The Brigitte healing issue still persists to this day. Her kit feels a lot worse to use, but she still gets insane value from inspire when she’s allowed to get it off.

Everyone was asking for inspire nerfs, but instead they just made her an inspire bot.

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Exactly

If they had diverted a lot of that passive healing into a more active role (like repair pack) she would be much better and maybe they wouldnt need to nerf her so much or potentially rework her (thing im against…)

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All the things nerfed would have been larger issues in goats, especially the notable omission of bashes going through barriers. Zen goats peak AoE is roughly Moira piss levels of heal. It was never the heals. If it was, we’d see old school Moira goats more.

The bash through barriers beeing removed made goats stronger though

Not really. It just made goats mirrors boring. I suppose non goats brig comps were hurt but no one ran them anyway outside a few instances of Brig+Lucio 2/2/2 cheese.

the problem is, he was the number 3-4 dps, and number 1 and 2 are busted OP.
genji is number 3 because he is good against widow and hanzo while also enjoying a monkey free meta.

what im saying is, mcree is the power creep. unless they are also going to buff all the dps, tanks, and healers to deal with widow, hanzo, and mcree.

Funny, you directed me hear from my thread on this same sort of topic and I do see we agree.

I disagree with McCree as I think that’s just a bad balance decision rather than linking back to failed past changes. After all the reason they gave to the buff wasn’t that it addressed his weaknesses, it was that he wasn’t good enough to justify them so they wanted to make him better.

But your right, change something and fail then change something and succeed and you will likely have deeper effects of the failed change and often the right thing to do is revert the first one. The hypothetical you gave is a good demonstration of our theory.

I must say however I prefer my name for this of legacy changes to calling them useless changes XD

Edit: I’d add the reason I don’t like the term useless changes is sometimes you get a change that made sense and worked but the reason behind it is gone so now it’s a problem, a legacy problem. I don’t really want to go into a detailed example here as it means going through loads of old patches and hero interactions so I’ll just ask this, why does Widow have bonus crit dmg?

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