imho the only way fixing comp is making it 6 stack only and adding a clan/guild system and overhauling the lfg system to accommodate for it
and talking about forcing metas in qp is silly
forget role queue, forget hero bans, forget 2-2-2, make comp PUGs only
I’d like to see a min/max system which is very similar to what this thread is proposing.
Every role should require at least 1 hero pick. But I personally think that no role should allow for more than 3 either.
Comps that have more than 3 of a role or fewer than 1 of a role are really against the spirit of Overwatch. They shouldn’t exist.
One day people will look back at this dicussion over role limits and think of it like the 1 hero limit as something that was obvious and wonder why we didn’t do it earlier.
All I know is OW needs to start at minimum testing with options for queuing or this game is going to keep slowly decaying.
The “experience” of solo queue is and has always been terrible ever since competitive was implemented into this game.
Are things really that creative now? If one team is losing and they can’t figure out why…just go goats. Either the other team does it too or they lose. Nothing really counters all that tanky armor. But plenty of things counter dps heroes.
But they cannot bypass slows and heavy AoE damage that cannot be eaten by D.va. And fire wall that can deal damage through shields if stepped in.
Goats is strong against common defense. But it does not mean that there is no other ways to defense against it. For example, Mei is VERY strong against goats. But people tend to ignore it because not so many players play Mei on regular basis.
Could potentially see an limit to role picking in Overwatch. Can only go high to 3 picks in an hero category overall.
The only thing which i see could work when enforced is having at least one main tank and one support.
I dont think there will ever be any functional comp without any of these.
When i say main tank i mean 1 out of Reinhardt, Orisa or Winston. Subject to change if we get another main tank as a new hero.
Who said that? Who defines spirit of overwatch? Why I am okay with playing as and against 3/3 comps and do not feel like this is something against overwatch spirit?
I say. It’s my opinion. As far as I’m concerned, every role should matter and no comp that doesn’t include every role should ever be viable.
You can have a different opinion, but I feel pretty strongly about this personally. I think it would be better for the game to force that.
Or, don’t implement horrible and contrived matchmaking ideas to completely eradicate a legitimate comp just because you don’t like it. GOATS should be a viable strategy, just not the only viable strategy.
Hey, if you got any better ideas. I’d be glad to hear it.
As is, it seems like a choice between:
I tend to pride items on “outside the box” thinking. But I don’t see a way out of this one.
The deeper I dig on it, the more of a problem it becomes.
cough
I did see this and the OP of that post also joined the conversation here.
I can see where you’re coming from and limiting to 3 isn’t a bad idea but forcing every team to have a minimum of one hero per role allows for more compositions while still limiting team strengths with 2/2/2 being one of the most balanced alongside 1/2/3. This is because no team can ever have more than 4 of one role and if you do use 4, your team is forced into having a weakness elsewhere. If you have 4 tanks for example, you can only ever have 1 healer because there’s 1 Damage hero that must take a slot. This means your healing output will be relatively weak. I find it unlikely that teams will ever use 4 of a specific role but I also feel the option should be there because the requirement of using 1 hero from all roles weakens the team overall.
I can somewhat sympathize with this because I’ve been playing since before the game even had competitive. I felt similarly when they took away no limits as the standard mode. After a while I realized that while I couldn’t always play my favorite heroes, my games were more fun and felt more balanced. There were no more teams of 6 Mei’s dominating everyone with constant freezing or the massive bulk of 6 Winstons that would pounce people and electrocute them to death. It may take away some of the spirit of what the game was meant to be but as long as the game is improved and more fun for the player base, I think it’s ok for a change to take place.
I’m holding out hope for the “secret stuff” they’ve been working on. I don’t play comp anymore but I still feel the changes elsewhere in the game. I feel like role queue or some similar tool for competitive players would help the game greatly even if I would never use it myself.
Where the 1/1/1 system forces you into playing “Tank” it is currently 1 of 7 tanks, your idea forces a 1 of 3 and as heroes get added, the Tank role will increase but the Anchor Tank role might not (Note that Winston is not considered an Anchor Tank but I included him for your argument). The game will be less fun if we force people to play things that are too specific which is why I’m against 2/2/2 Meta Lock but not the entire idea behind it. I don’t think you would appreciate it if you ended up being forced to play an anchor tank in a situation where DVa might be the better choice. Consider how Reinhardt, Orisa, and Winston all interact with Bastion for example.
I partially agree to this. I think every hero should be viable in some way. I’ve heard people say that Tanks deal too much damage at the moment and that’s why the Damage Role hasn’t been as strong. I think Damage Output might be the bigger issue. Most tank heroes can survive a headshot from Widowmaker, a damage hero can’t.
2/2/2 would fix a lot of issues, namely with the supports and tanks.
Alone those hero’s are pretty balanced: Take brig for example, she actually has poor healing like lucio and needs to get upclose to engage on things. She is weak in that she doesnt have a defensive ult like Zen or Lucio and doesnt have the healing that Moira, Ana, or Mercy have but she makes up for it with utility and damage. She would not have been as big of a problem had you not been able to stack 3 supports. Lucio helps her engage, Moira/Ana help cover the healing amount and range. Zen/Lucio/Brig has enough heals and defensive ults to keep tanks up but Zen/Brig would never be able to keep 3 tanks alive and would even struggle to keep two up.
A 2/2/2 lock would prevent things like GOATS from happening. If Triple DPS becomes a thing again it would prevent that as well. However, it would help deal with the issues that come up with tank and support stacking because it actually forces trade offs from the two most powerful classes in this game instead of allowing you to just run hero’s that cover those tradeoffs. If we had a 2/2/2 lock picking a brig to deal with flankers would have had some downsides because it would put extra pressure on your main healer and would leave you more vulnerable to combo’s like grav or blades.
There is still plenty of variety we can have with a 2/2/2 and I think it would actually increase the diversity that we have because it would force certain tradeoffs
When it comes to 2/2/2 and variety, the entire roster would need to be rebalanced to fit it. At the moment, you can statistically pick out who deals the most damage and gives the most team advantage out of the heroes. As it stands 2/2/2 would reinforce that thinking. We could end up with another problem of seeing only the statistically best heroes. Right now we actually get more variety because, like you said, Brigitte is getting her weaknesses nullified by 2 other supports. If that couldn’t happen, then she may no longer have a strong place in a team’s composition. She would likely need a large buff to compensate for those weaknesses. I don’t think we need to force a 2/2/2 to get the desired effect of eliminating goats. I think a 1/1/1 would be just as effective because you can either have strong heals or strong defense but not both. There will always be a hero that needs balancing as long as this game continues to update but the team compositions themselves shouldn’t be the ones needing the balancing like GOATS does. Teams should have a strength and a weakness (1/2/3 and 1/1/4 comp) or they should be evenly balanced (2/2/2 comp) but as it stands, GOATS has an advantage in most current situations because it has enough damage output, healing output, and defense with few drawbacks.
If you’re going to take hero choice away from players just make it 2-2-2 in some mode because having to play the single healer or tank with 4 dimwitted DPSers is as bad as anything else. At that point it would be better if the 2 poor souls can just switch to DPS anyway if they want and consider it practice.
I’ve been in many games where this was already the case. I’ll solo heal for the team but yes, it does feel like a lost cause. I have won games in those kinds of situations though. You can’t fix your teammates not playing well, you can only try your best with the given situation. Overwatch was built to be a team game and those 4 DPS are part of your team. Even if they were forced into 2/2/2 they still won’t be good players. You could end up with a battle Mercy or a Reinhardt that charges solo into the enemy team constantly. You can’t swap to make up for those players and you are locked into whatever role you have chosen. 2/2/2 doesn’t just take away your choice, but your ability to adapt as well.
Yes. Adapt by teaching them that if they don’t want team work, they won’t get it. It works a lot for me (special mention to those trios that choose dps).
It is a spit on your face that 4 people pick dps(most likelly at least 2 of them are Snipers) knowing that most of the time it does not work. One. One of them should care more about the team. I dont care about 3 dps. It is not ideal. But you can work with them. The moment the 4th dps shows up( again, most of the time it is a sniper or a flanker) …You know that they don’t care. And neither should you.
Battle Mercy/Moira and Flank Hog away my children.
“We need a healer? No. You need a healer.”- Hog on qp
I sympathize with the frustration and I love destroying with Moira. You should be able to have fun, but I also don’t want to promote toxic behavior. I think the 2/2/2 meta lock would only cause more yelling at teammates for “playing wrong.” A lost cause is a lost cause. Try your best and have some fun.
Do be honest, when I play QP or Comp, I ONLY run in 6 stacks.
2/2/2
2 tank, 2 support, 2 flex ( NOT DPS )