Symmetra, after 3 years, 2 reworks, 1 year of fixing, and a month of viability, is back to being a joke

Title.

So…she was F tier for 3 years. And when she finally gets her time to shine she gets nerfed after 2 weeks.
It wasn’t even her meta, Doomfist would just punch her against a wall.
(Btw he still is able to swoop in and kill 3 people and swoop out al by himself. Nice.)

I understand the nerf to the beam. Thats fine, i support it. And even her ultimate nerf is fine.
But everything else?

The turret nerfs?
Turning a teleport into a budget version of her old ultimate?

And I honestly dont believe your excuse that you nerfed the turrets because of her beam. The beam is as viable now as it was before the bug fix.
Honestly, Symmetra in patch 1.38/39 was the best version ever.

And now…after 3 years of trying to make her good, reworking her twice…and after a full year of giving her buffs to fix the issues that came with Sym 3.0… you DELETED all that progress in 2 patches… Good job.
She is worse then she came out. Symmetra 1.0 would have been more viable.

My advice?
Just:

  • add 1 more turret to compensate
  • half the cooldown on the TP when Symmetra destroys it
    Thats it.
141 Likes

You won’t find sympathy for symm here. Evidently, McCree having better overall stats and doomfist dominating despite this being symms literal explicit niche… Is a sign she is broken.

They should just scrap her at this point tbh

53 Likes

I don’t know. Is she a joke? All I hear is people claiming she is bad, bad, bad, bad. But these claims and my experience with her in game actually clash with each other.

I believe people are trying to convince us she is much worse than she actually is. I have no idea why. Almost like a conspiracy theory. I’m tired of “Symmetra sucks” threads.

I don’t think people will be satisfied with her state, no matter what devs do.

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Dont believe us? Look at her pick rate and stats.

She wouldn’t have been reworked and changed so much if she was good.

I don’t care about stats. A low pick rate means a hero is niche. Symmetra is designed to be niche, but she’s very viable in her niche. And she is doing a little better in this meta than she was doing before.

According to Overbuff, right now she is more viable and more used than D.va, Genji, Torb, Sombra, Soldier, Bastion, Pharah, Winston, Zen. In GM. Her winrate there is 52% BTW. Not great but not terrible.

In general, taking into account all ranks, her winrate is 55%. This is very far from terrible.

This is what she is: niche, but viable. I have never seen people complaining so much about a character’s state. It makes my mind tired to process the existence of all these threads. And you guys never make it clear what it is that you want. A higher pick rate? A higher win rate? A complete rework so she isn’t designed to be niche?

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I don’t see nearly as many symm threads during 2.0 as 3.0

You don’t have to agree. But I hate symm being on my team. Because I hate having explicit liabilities.

Enemy team can run her tho. Her and brig can work well for the enemy team … For me to squish lmao

2 Likes

Didnt you say that u dont care about stats? and here u are throwing the winrate?

Let me tell ya something Thelma, NO HERO should be niche. Everyone should be able to play what they like and be effective doing it.

Second, if ur gonna throw around the win-rate, then let me remind you that the winrate is horribly inflated for heroes with low pick-rate.

I got a winrate on Widowmaker of 98% even tho i picked her like twice in comp and got lucky my team carried me those times.

12 Likes

If no hero should be niche, Blizzard should just delete Symmetra, Bastion and Torb. Because their designs are the most niche designs of the entire roster. Their essence is niche.

Regardless, people are already allowed to make these characters work in high tiers. Many do. Look at Stevoo, Sym one trick in GM. You have to accumulate a lot of gamesense and experience to make a niche character work in general situations, but some people manage to do it. No one is stopping you from doing it.

Again: what is it that you want? A new design, which works in general situations? A higher pickrate? What would make you satisfied? What would make you actually say “Symmetra is fine”?

4 Likes

The fact that they nerfed Sym in weeks and 55 dmg FTH, 50% Reaper’s Life Steal were in the game for months should indicate to us all where Blizz wants Sym to be.

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Like i mentioned in post above, i believe that Sym was her best version before the bug fix, in patch 1.38/1.39.
I believe they should have kept her that way and not change a thing. Maaaaaaaybe just a little health buff, but i think that would be too much.

And i did post a suggestion right bellow how to fix her current state.

4 Likes

OK. This is reasonable. But don’t you think we are going to create more of a snowball effect if we keep changing or reverting her design? Like she is this eternally reworked character.

Isn’t it a little better to keep her design as it is right now, and give some buffs and QoL changes starting from there?

As you suggested on the first post, some CD adjustments.

Ultimately, I think her fans need to accept the fact that maybe she will never be the “most picked” DPS of the month like a hitscan/burst damage McCree. She deserves to be viable (as everyone else does), but her kit never allowed her to shine as an S tier generalist. The same goes for Bastion and Torb. We don’t want to see them F tier unviable, but it is reasonable to expect them to not be the Top 3 or Top 2 most picked DPS in a meta.

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Oh no no… you misunderstand.

Sym mains DONT WANT her to be picked every game nor for her to be meta. At all… We like feeling special in the manner that we specialize in her. And the fact that not just anybody can pick her up is one of the things that attracts us to her.
There are very few Sym fans, but we are very loyal fans.

What we want is to be able to pick her and not get bullied and reported for it. And to be able to play the game without getting countered by almost everything. If you have watched Stevoo play you can see how frustrating it is.
We dont really care about the meta, nor the pick rate, as long as we can get to do our job as a DPS.

24 Likes

OK. Starting to understand you a little more. Symmetra is one of the few characters I’ve never played.

Can you explain to me what aspects of the game or what characters in specific counter Symmetra too much right now? I always had the impression she is weak against range (her own range is bad), but when I play as a tank (any tank), she can be extremely powerful and shut me down quickly. In short, she feels kind of like a glass cannon.

Sym is the strongest against Rein and Dva… but a lot of other things shut her down…like a lot, especially since Sym is terrible in duels.

  • winston. he easily destroys all turrets and can kill Sym before she charges her lazer. A natural counter
  • Orisa. By the time Sym destroys her shield, Orisa will have another, and also a free hand to gun her down
  • Sigma, same as Orisa
  • Any sniper, even Ana
  • Phara
  • Doomfist
  • Dive

Its pointless to name heroes like this… Anything can pretty much counter her. She is not exactly a natural counter to anybody. And if the tanks are agressive enough, she cannot do anything about.
The best way to play Symmetra is come up with crazy plans and big brain strategies so you can at least outsmart your enemies, or annoy them long enough for your team. It takes extreme amounts of game sense and awareness just to be able to survive… but its not often that you have enough space to make your plans come to life, and if they do, its a question if they will succeed

8 Likes

Inb4 Genji mains try to argue that shes balanced and actually op and brainless

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This is the most mind-boggling part to me.

They reworked Sym and changed her category to be a dps. She was always a close range character because throwing slow orbs down sightlines isn’t exactly reliable dps output (though the old ability of the orbs to pierce shields was something I miss greatly). You have to get in and do that beam damage. Which means, you have to be in the middle of the brawl, up close and personal with enemies.

Rein can swing three times and kill her. Even though she’s supposed to be melting barriers. But why would I ever come close to him if he can take two steps forward and beat me to death? I need extreme pocketing to duel ONE other enemy, which is where the frustration with Sym comes from. It comes from the fact that she needs to be pocketed and when pocketed, every character is annoying. Like, Pharah is weak to everything in the game currently, but everybody still hates Pharmercy because pocketing is the problem, not Pharah.

Anyway, comparing Sym to other “up close and personal” dps, we can immediately see the differences. Who else is a brawler that needs some time to get a kill while participating in the brawl? Doomfist, Reaper and Mei. There’s even a healer in this category (Brigitte).

All of these characters have the following:

  1. 250 HP
  2. Abilities to restore or gain health while in combat without needing to disengage (Doomfist’s shields, Reaper’s self heal, Mei’s iceblock and wall, Brigitte’s self heal)
  3. Abilities to defend themselves and/or escape (Doomfist’s shields, mobility and ultimate, Reaper’s wraith form and, now buffed, shadowstep, Mei’s iceblock and wall, Brigitte’s self heal and shield and two forms of CC (stun and pushing with flail)).

These things are crucial to keeping a brawler in the brawl. Symmetra has none of them. 200 HP, teleporter is too slow to deploy and enter before you’re killed, teleporter has also been changed to serve as a knock-off version of her old ult, slow charge beam that gives nothing in return for attacking the enemy (neither health, no protection, nor CC: literally her old lock-on beam was better due to slowing down targets and ofc let’s not forget her photon barrier. F in chat). Some people say she has shields that regenerate, but they regenerate out of combat. I don’t need them out of combat, I need something to survive the brawl without my whole team pocketing me to kill one enemy.

Curiously, one character was upgraded to receive 250 HP and it’s… Torbjorn. A character with two long range options, one of which is a turret, who doesn’t have to fight anyone face to face and who also already had an ability to temporarily buff his own health, movement and attack.

I am completely baffled by this and I will maintain the statement that it’s a 100% undeniable fact that nobody on the dev team plays Symmetra and hasn’t played her since release until these literal basic problems are somehow addressed and until there’s acknowledging that her reworks were done without a single suggestion or input from people who play her (some of them play her for a living).

I simply do not understand what they want Symmetra to be and, evidently, neither do they. And obviously, listening to (professional and otherwise) Symmetra players is just too much of an enigma.

32 Likes

I want you to imagine, or remember what other meta or comps were like, and now imagine trying to play sym in those other comps. what are you expecting sym to do and how she can guarantee value compared to other damage heroes?

because as a sym main, and I think many others would agree, that current sym in other comps will end up being pretty much the same as sym1.0. And that’s a massive issue in terms of sym’s individual balance.

1 Like

To be fair, your Rein example is a little weak because Rein is supposed to be strong in very close combats. His weaknesses are mobility and range, and Symmetra isn’t a mobile character or a ranged character. She is not supposed to be this absolute hard Rein counter, though she can melt his shield very quickly in many situations.

I will agree though that Torbjörn has much more of a free card than Symmetra does in this game. The Overload ability, the 250 HP and the gun. Some people say dev bias against Symmetra is due to her turrets, but Torbjörn has a turret as well and is much more pandered. Not to mention the fact that Symmetra’s turrets can be easily get rid of with a melee attack, whereas Torb’s turret has a significant amount of health.

But as I said before, I don’t think another rework is the way to go here. I am not sure what could be done to make her more balanced, but as you said, increasing survivability could be one good option. Not damage, not range, but survivability.

See I’m going to have to disagree with you a little bit cuz I found more trouble trying to kill a Rein off than I’ve ever did with Orisa nor Sigma

You’re right, I mostly just wanted to point out how easy it is to get rid of her, as long as you have slightly more health and/or sustain.

Also my confusion is that I should be close enough to melt barriers, but if I do get close enough, I risk dying very quickly because I’m simply too close to the enemy team. So I’m confused as to what my role as Symmetra should be. Keeping flanks? Melting barriers? Both? Something else? Her kit is all over the place and has been altered so many times that I simply don’t understand her niche anymore. She really has none. I guess it’s case per case basis, but there are other options to go for when you want any of the things she can do, and she doesn’t really excel in any of them. At least before, she was a go-to niche for first point defense.

I agree that another full rework is not the way to go here. At least not before there’s some form of communication established between devs and Sym players. Sym is the most reworked character in the game and all of those iterations have had major issues and forced her players to drastically change their playstyles. The least she can get, as you said, is survivability. I kinda liked the tp as the idea of survivability but it had deployment issues and then it was changed for no reason at all to be a worse version of her ultimate.

1 Like