Some Sym changes to make her good and not OP

Only one tricks want thier hero to work anytime anywhere. The game is not designed to satisfy that condition.

Like some Genji players, they think Genji counters EVERYTHING with skill. After Genji gets his butt kicked they cry for buffs on the forum, just like any other one trick.

For the record, not that it should matter, I am not a one trick. I play Ashe and Echo and Torb and McCree as well.

We know not every hero is going to work everywhere optimally but a key attracting feature of OW is using skill and clever tactic to overcome unfavourable matchups, and there is absolutely such a thing as being too niche. The devs have admitted that they like the direction the game evolved overall, i.e. people maining heroes and not only using them in strict niche situations, and they have balanced (or tried to, in spirit) with that in mind.

If I can’t main Sym as much as someone can main McCree, that’s simply unfair.

These changes are to make her more decent overall and not OP specifically.

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The current metas seem to focus more on random damage and pokes to test the waters and weaken targets. This is not something that Zarya is too concerned about as half her health is shield health. Secondly, her barrier being on reasonably long (ish) cooldown really doesn’t benefit from low-power random damage. At best, she could get 8 to 16 charge out of it, lose about half that before the next cooldown, if no one takes aim at an ally that isn’t be significantly threatened (this is where barriering tanks yields huge returns for Zarya). Suffice it to say, lower rank and less skilled players don’t measure their shots much, so Zarya will easily pick up charge, and either get overwhelmed and die or survive long enough to get picks. It’s a little different at the higher end as Zarya can be a lot more fragile and enemy targets will measure their shots a little more carefully.

You kinda have to understand that Symmetra is a builder, she’s not to be running ahead of her team holding down M1 and trying to burn faces off. She has to take a more measured approach utilizing her devices to gain maximum impact. If her beam were reverted back to the numbers it was doing, it would be encouraging a behavior that wasn’t intended by design and would force Blizzard to scrap her entire kit and build a new one, or let her languish with perceived “useless” abilities because the pay off isn’t worth it when Symmetra can just blindly run in and burn faces off.

You gotta understand this from a design point-of-view.

Players can duck out of a low damage turret, just fast enough to avoid taking a full second’s worth of damage, it’s much harder to do that when you have a slowing Sentry or three burning you from a spot not in your immediate view. Moreso to the point if all three them are all in different locations.

Certain heroes can certainly duck out of them and avoid the damage completely, just as others can simply shrug off the damage of Torbjorn’s turret and kill simply, but not everyone can do this.

It ties in with the reward. A 20% slow isn’t going to hurt anyone too much, but by stacking it up to 60%, it encourages keeping the Sentries close to each other to yield the reward of higher damage to a possible kill. Plus it synergizes well with her RMB Orbs.

The slowing effect could be moved to something else, but I don’t know what would work without it being substantially stronger than it would be on a Sentry. 60% slow is really strong.

I even considered the idea of a Sentry sending out a brief recon/reveal of the target who killed it, and back when Symmetra had 6 sentries, it was kinda useful at times to place 1 or 2 in areas that could be traveled by the enemy team just to see if they were coming in that direction and be prepared. Spacial control is something Symmetra is really good with.

Unfavorable match ups? Like playing against your hero’s counter?

Instead of switching, let’s test the skill of our hero’s counter shall we? :smirk:

This situation may be familiar to one tricks…

:skull_and_crossbones: “Aww man, that was a close one.”
:skull_and_crossbones: “That was a lucky shot”
:skull_and_crossbones: “Almost had’em that time”
:skull_and_crossbones: “I need more damage”
:skull_and_crossbones: “I need more heals”

Learn to switch. :unamused:

I think you’re missing the point and being pretty standoffish.

I will read the rest of your post but real quick, I’m not asking for a revert to old numbers. Used to be 65/130/195 and I’m asking for 80/120/180. Just a better stage 1.

What heroes do you like to play Symetra against?
Answering the question may help you see.

It doesn’t matter. Winning in the hero select screen isn’t good design and I think most people dislike it.

I really don’t need you to judge / analyze my decisions, thanks.

Hitbox ist better at low ranks.

Smaller htbox helps all ranks tbh. Why?

Peeking is less disadvantageous

Snipers get less undeserved kills

more intuitive clashes vs some abilities.

Symmetra cannot even utilize head hitbox manipulation strafing, because of HOW FAT her head is

We had a much more frequent tp for over a year across various meta shifts and we legit do not see teams tp’ing around more than now. We did see however sym herself going around more often which I don’t see why that’s a bad thing given how she’s stuck outside of her primary and orb’s effective range for so often so long now.

Not even the pros back then with all the coordination they had didn’t used tp differently compared to now. It’s also even arguable people would be less willing to take tp too because they’re too lazy to track its duration and rather not risk getting stuck somewhere.

As to whether you think sym using tp for her own mobility is cheese, then I would like to know whether you think all the instantaneous non-destructible mobility with likely less cd are cheese as well. If not, then why the double standard?

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can you give me a list of heroes she is favorable against (with reasons)?

and because I know this will eventually lead to “she just needs X Y Z on her team with her to do A B C”, at what point does needing to suck up a lot of team resources due to deficiency of her kit will you consider her as in need of buffs or changes?

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You must understand, the XYZ,ABC are components of good team play.

In any solo queue game, the components of good team play may not exist. When team play is weak, for any hero, it doesn’t mean it’s time for a buff to be more independent.

I provided my reasoning earlier in the thread… :point_up:

you answered neither of my questions and not even the most important one:

how much of “needing teammates to actively make up for the hero’s weakness” does a hero need to have before they’re considered weak and needing balance changes for you?

like if there was a hero that had reaper’s shot guns but infinite ammo and ult but no abilities nor passives, would you still say they’re just “niche” and “team dependent” according to your logic? like you can totally make it work with double shield or some kind of deathball comp to team pocket it as it w+m1… :expressionless:

like if we look at the rest of the cast that aren’t struggling with viability, do they suck up as much team resources as sym does? no, because they actually do have a reasonably good mix of sustain, effective range, mobility and burst in their own kit for their role, even the supports.

and they have that good mix to ensure that they can individually put out a reasonable amount of value because most people solo queue i.e. most likely won’t have high teamwork.


I answered your questions. You are too blind to see it.

Our mini debate is over.

Bastion can do up to that damage.

Yes with massive downsides and it’s all he can do when he does it and he’s immobile.

No way should we do that kind of damage!

Is that what that was? Sounded like you had no good answer so threw a toddler tantrum.

If a hero needs mega coordination to be as good as a hero who doesn’t need that, she’s lacking. The devs have also admitted to trying to make heroes less team reliant so we feel more impactful in our play. This is directly contradicted by their infinite TP patch.


oh and before I forget.


Yes, excellent. That’s the post I was referring to along with the other one I linked earlier.

Too bad Zman will just ignore it and tell you to swap off Sym and disregard two posts from Jeff.

Nice quote, what a team player. :unamused:

yet she has THREE turrets. Makes no cents luv

i mean to be fair she has triangle/“three” themes everywhere

the points of her gun
the back of her gun/side of her gun
the triangle she makes in her poses
her side head-fan thingies with the blue jewels and then the one on her forehead
the 3 bumps on her shoulderpad
one could even argue tank/heal/dps back when she gave everyone “tank” health and “regenerating” health and barrier with a decent amount of damage

the list literally goes on for quite a while but you get the point

60/120/180 still follows the rule of 3, and it adds up to 360

but, i mean, yea, 60dps on her primary still doesn’t fit the game, itself

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