Some Sym changes to make her good and not OP

I think, in the high ranks, health is stronger than smaller hitbox. Sure, there is Reaper as exception due to Lifesteal and gigantic spread, but most other heroes dont really care about hitbox up there, because people can aim. Even Hanzo and Junkrat can land reliable shots in Diamond and above.

Roadhog, by the way, would be destroyed by 250 HP Symmetra. WIth 200 HP, he already has his trouble OHKO-ing her due to her stance (Roadhog 1-shot guide - November 2018 (Patch 1.30) | Overwatch Advanced Roadhog Guide - YouTube). If she had more HP, he had no chance to do that reliably. Plus he suffers from turrets like no one else.

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That’s a fair point, I think the hitbox thing would just feel better for the player than adding more health. Getting randomly dinked by a one shot would be less terrible if you knew that it was just random chance and not just a side effect of her hitbox being the size of Russia.

That is true, I just don’t really “feel” my hitbox when playing First-Person. I feel better if I look at my health and say “hey, if I had 200 HP, I would be dead now”. But this is a personal thing.

I think for the devs, it is easier to give her 250 HP though. I’m not an IT specialist, but I’d imagine it is rather hard to shrink/expand an entire hitbox, So far, only head hitboxes were changed, probably becuse they are “round”.

I notice the most when I play her into Hanzo because I die in one hit to him spam-shotting, only to find the arrow floating in the air next to my head.

It drives me up the freaking wall every single time that spammy Hanzos dominate Symmetra just because her headbox is so big.

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I know how it feels… Hanzo having gigantic arrow and Symmetra having a gigantic head has always been a pain. Much less when she had Shield Generator and Photon Barrier, but even back then they were mortal enemies…

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I feel like shield generator protected me from a lot of annoying characters in overwatch and I didn’t even realize at the time. It pushed Sym past the breakpoint for so many annoying one/two shots that it’s insane.

I wish I could go back to those days when I didn’t even know what I had…

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This is abseloutly me whenever I play Sym these days.

And it wasnt just Sym vs Hanzo. It was your whole team against all of the annoying burst heroes…Pharah, Junkrat, Tracer, Genji, Ana, Roadhog, Winston…
Shield Gen was underestimated when it exsisted and even now, whenever I bring it up, it is underestimated. It was defining for Sym 2.0 and one of the strongest abilities/ultimates ever. I really miss it :frowning:

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:sob:

You’re right, pour one out for our good homie shield generator. It basically exists now as Rally (even though SG was removed after Brig released), which is an infinitely inferior version. They’ve removed, nerfed, or gutted any ability that artificially increases the amount of HP heroes have and it makes a lot of matchups frustrating when they’re wildly one-sided because of differences in mobility/range/damage.

(also before anyone says anything, Rally is inferior to SG because the shields were infinitely regenerating and could also be healed. It was basically 75 permanent health that would restore itself outside of combat even without healing. Rally might give you that extra 25 hp and mitigate damage, but the armor doesn’t regenerate when it breaks and it disappears after 30 seconds regardless)

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I would say go 80/120/180/225/300 add 2 more levels for those shield heavy comps!

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that seems excessive tbh ._.

Seems hilariously amazing.

But really, no. Nonononono.

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Damage can’t be higher because Sentries damage combined with beam damage is level 3 damage.

Range can’t be increased because Sentries already cover a huge amount of distance.

Build time is fair, the cooldown is not.

Stacking slow can stay. The indicators for Sentries already reveal that they are attacking a unit, so this would be a moot point. Still, I don’t see anything wrong with it.

I don’t agree with these arguments. Why is the sentry + beam damage some sort of magic value? Keep in mind turret damage was nerfed already.

Also, simply improving stage 1 DPS is going to only impact her output for 1.3 seconds, it’s not much at all in the grand scheme, just a QoL to make it less ticklish and make her slightly less easy to jump.

RE: range, sentries aren’t reliable and shouldn’t be taken as consistent contributions to her damage IMO. They’re extremely easy to deny and generally serve as distractions / slowing points. I can see other arguments against beam range, such as her being able to charge against shields “too safely” (which I also disagree with but see the merits of.)

Why not? Old TP had a potential downtime of 0-12 seconds. Current TP is guaranteed 12 seconds. This would be 6-12 seconds, still a downgrade over many uses of non-infinite TP.

This is specifically as compensation nerfs and to reduce CC in the game which is an overall theme they’re going with. I’m fine with making turrets weaker for making the rest of her kit stronger, especially since this is what she has least control over. Also the reveal thing is mostly for allies, and to see who exactly is where. They’d be actual sentries and have more use in that regard.

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Her beam is too short that’s her only problem. 15m is a good range if hog can have a 20m hook

I suspect a 15m beam would solve a lot of her problems and I think they should at least try it out.

Bug fixes to the way beams calculated their damage for Zarya and Symmetra necessitated tweaking the damage downward. Symmetra’s own beam damage would’ve seen a more severe downward tweak, but rather than do that, they reverted the numbers to their base values and adjusted the damage output of Sentries.

Because the combined range increase doesn’t work like Zarya’s. Zarya needs to challenge an enemy team for damage, and that invokes risk to yield some kind of reward (higher damage return). Symmetra’s beam levels up on its own, without any damage interactions, and with the slow effects on her Sentries, makes much easier to bring up that beam’s level and damage in addition to the persistent power of Sentries. Keep in mind that if all three sentries are on a target, Symmetra’s own damage from her beam puts it at 180 damage per second, this will end most 200 health targets in about a second; many don’t have the defensive skills, abilities or otherwise to break through that slow.

Torbjorn’s turret’s 14 damage isn’t reliable and shouldn’t be taken as consistent contribution to his damage.

Soldier’s Helix Rocket damage isn’t reliable, and shouldn’t be taken as consistent contributions to his damage.

And so on and so on. This is bad logic, and a bad argument. Sentries work and do their job. If they didn’t, they wouldn’t exist.

Teleporter cheese. Symmetra isn’t the only one who gets to use that teleporter, nor is her devices the only ones that benefit from them.

Sentries work because of that slow. Slows aren’t crowd control in the strictest sense, they don’t prevent a loss of control over your character. Might as well argue removal of Junkrat’s trap; that’s far more penalizing.

And the reveal/recon of Sonic Arrow and Widow’s Ultimate (and Sombra’s passive), are huge boons for the team. Information is ammunition and knowing where the enemy is coming from and who they are is especially strong. It’s not a bad thing to have more recon abilities - Sentries and Turrets already do this, as well as the silhouettes of allies in combat, but knowing precisely who is coming from where, may be a little too strong. Again, not against the idea for Sentries, but remaining cautious.

Fix her hitbox, I honestly think that is the reason she is “bad”. I main her and I don’t really have any other complains about her kit or damage, only the ridicilous hitbox she has when she’s already a fragile hero to play.

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Yes I understand the rationale of it. I’m not sure I agree with the conclusion still.

For the record I do think 50 -> 40 was good but I’m still not convinced that 80 on stage 1 is too much.

I think that the risk Zarya has to take is overstated. There’s a lot of spam / projectiles in the game, and combined with her charge decay buff from a while back, it’s reasonably easy to maintain charge on Zarya. Also the 3 turrets + beam thing is really situational, don’t you think? It’s not something that will happen often, and doesn’t in my experience.

Sym’s beam is shorter range than Zaryas, and she has substantially less bulk, so there is absolutely risk in charging up. I’d say it’s moreso than Zarya, esp since Zarya gains charge off ally bubbles too.

I don’t think it’s the same thing. Those abilities are far more reliable than sentry turrets. For one, Torb can control which target his turret attacks with his primary fire, and it has much more range while being bulky. It’s not as much potential DPS as Sym’s sentries but it’s definitely more reliable. Helix Rockets are reliable. You aim a relatively fast projectile.

Also Torb’s turret does 56 DPS, 14 per round and 4 rounds per second I believe.

I’m not saying sentries are bad or useless but they can be very easily denied value and are hard to control.

I mean, that’s a fair perspective. I personally disagree but that’s just opinion based.

I’m not arguing for slow removal, just stacking slow removal. That’s not the same as removing Junk’s trap.

Yes, slow is the softest possible CC but people hate it nonetheless.

Fair. It’d be something to test though. Realistically when an enemy encounters a lone turret they either back up quick or kill it quick, so catching the reveal would generally be in a narrow window. Plus this would be limited to the one target the sentry hits, so you wouldn’t necessarily know who else is there.

My Symetra is fine in this patch. She cannot work everywhere. Learn to switch when she doesn’t work.

I like to play Symetra on maps that have high ground, or I like to play her against Dva, Sigma, or Genji.

In short, I like to play Symetra against heroes that eat or deflect projectiles.

This is detracting from the topic and frankly isn’t really helpful.

By that logic you can argue against any UP character by “just switch.” That’s not fair and not right. Heroes should be balanced and not super-niche.

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