So we’re clear on an argument against 2/2/2

[RobotWizard-116887]

@HongKongNo1-3302

They wouldnt have any data for 7 hero mode.

And that would make their balancing worse?

I mean, you could complain that they couldn’t balance 7s well, but, they can’t balance 6s well either.

The bar is, would it be much worse than it is now?

Now - remember I’m a Sombra player… so I have particular feelings on how bad the balance in the game is.

[Baja-11423]

It’s just a very very flawed “solution” to a problem…there were a lot of other options they could’ve gone with that didn’t alienate so many people…they can gossy up the whole “play what you want” narrative as much as they want but at the end of the day the change just restricts the ability for many to play the game how they want to…in a forced manner…not because others don’t “allow” them to

[Quîsp-1394]

@Nerv-1478

but making the argument that no one wants to play tanks or support hero’s so 2/2/2 is bad for “forcing” people to is ridiculous.

Its about stupid. No one is “forcing” anyone to play anything, if anything now you can’t be pressured it into tanking or support because fast-connect Genji in California isn’t instalocking Genji and demanding a tank and healer to back his weeb butt up while pestering for Nano…

[Marmite-21826]

They tried 411, it didn’t work.

dps players either learn to play properly as a team instead of thinking it was great to force 411 or 510 or 600, or they play qp classic where they can meme dps-only comps against other dps-only comps, or they quit.

those are the options, role q, sr based roles and 222 enforced is fine, the q times for dps are fine.

[Socrates-11282]

@Nerv-1478

playing solo tank or solo support while trying to herd 4-5 dps wanting to do their own thing was the problem.

That’s a teamwork issue, not something that happens solely because there are 4-5 DPS.

@Nerv-1478

but making the argument that no one wants to play tanks or support hero’s so 2/2/2 is bad for “forcing” people to is ridiculous.

The majority of the player base doesn’t like tanking.
It is a ridiculous thing to say but has a point to it. Due to queue times, people have to go roles like support or tank to get into games since if they picked DPS, they would be there for 12+ minutes for a 8 minute game. Not exactly fair right?

They aren’t exactly “forced” by it is the same type of “forced” fillers felt most games, which was to go roles they didn’t want to play.

@Nerv-1478

doing it solo and again trying to get 4-5 other strangers playing dps and doing their own thing to cooperate and work with you was not enjoyable.

I actually enjoyed it, especially as Rein where I could be super aggressive to make the space for the DPS to do their job.

[HongKongNo1-3302]

Well even if the balance isnt that good, we already have a dps heavy meta. That with another dps added means any hero might get dead much faster. Multiplying 6/7 to all damage wont be enough.

[RomanGod-1917]

Amen. This goes for all roles.

[AngelofLife-1382]

I agree, i cant say how many times recently i’ve been killed instantly as a rein with no understanding of what happened simply because my shield dropped. There’s a ton of dps going through and hitting barriers and melting everything.

[TheCheese-1550]

@HyenaHeart-1307

Again, the desire of a fill player never obstructed their experience.

It did often enough that it became an issue for us. One of the things I really, really like about role queue is that I can queue for DPS and know that I’m not leaving my team short a tank or healer.

I can only speak for myself, but I was constantly in a position where I felt like I had to play healer or tank. The experience of playing a game as the 5th dps was, for me, worse than the experience of playing a match without sufficient healing or tanking.

[Megadodo-11847]

@Marmite-21826

They tried 411, it didn’t work.

dps players either learn to play properly as a team instead of thinking it was great to force 411 or 510 or 600, or they play qp classic where they can meme dps-only comps against other dps-only comps, or they quit.

those are the options, role q, sr based roles and 222 enforced is fine, the q times for dps are fine.

Qp classic will not necessarily be available

[Holka-21689]

@RobotWizard-116887

It also solved the fillers not getting to play DPS without putting their team comp in the pooper.

Not really.
You still need a shield tank.
You still need a main healer and, if that healer could heal through shields, it would be better.
And you still need a shield-breaker or/and Doomfist.

So you still need to fill.
And since more than half the playerbase wants to play dps, you still get dps players playing tanks or support because the queue time for dps is too long.

[RobotWizard-116887]

@Holka-21689

So you still need to fill.

not NEARLY to the same degree.

[Marmite-21826]

Irrelevant, it’s there, those are your choices

[Hyphen-21921]

@Nerv-1478

To the anti 2/2/2 crowd continually making this particular argument, playing tank or support wasn’t the problem, playing solo tank or solo support while trying to herd 4-5 dps wanting to do their own thing was the problem.

Yeah to the 222 supporters that are still memeing about the verified, stated by Jeff himself and the devs, most UNCOMMON and extreme outlier in competitive of 4-5 DPS.

Just.Stop.

It wasn’t a problem and it has been verified already. It is a problem of QP, not of comp. 4-5 DPS was the most RARE comp that was used in competitive so stop that. The main reason for the forced 2 2 2 was role queue and having more accurate SR distribution on the players playing those roles.

@Nerv-1478

Dislike 2/2/2 all you want and have your reasons for it but don’t be ridiculous with those reasons.

Apply it to yourself. Defend 222 all you want but stop using dead memes and false information please.

[RobotWizard-116887]

@Hyphen-21921

Yeah to the 222 supporters that are still memeing about the verified, stated by Jeff himself and the devs, most UNCOMMON and extreme outlier in competitive of 4-5 DPS.

Hyphen is right here. Comp super surprisingly was really close to 1/3 | 1/3 | 1/3 pick rate.

[Meowjoker-1311]

Ult feeds

And 9/10 you are gonna be forced into a shield tank. Albeit I find it is ok to play Shied tanks but it does get boring quick.

[Megadodo-11847]

@Marmite-21826

Irrelevant, it’s there, those are your choices

clarifications:

1. the statement I made is not irrelevant

2. qp classic is not necessarily “there”, given that it is unknown if it will be permanently available

[EFR-11282]

@JeffreyKaplan

We actually tried a mode we called “411” because it limited comps to 1 tank, 1 healer and the rest DPS.

It was not fun and we didn’t enjoy it. The way the game is tuned, the importance it placed on the lone tank or lone support was too significant. Also, we’ve all evolved as players since 2016 and we’re much better these days at melting the tank or melting the healer than we used to be. Once your lone tank or healer died, it felt like you were forced to completely regroup with no chance of pulling out a win.

It was a good experiment for us to try and led to a lot of good discussion. But yeah, wasn’t fun…

Jeff himself about 411.

[Marmite-21826]

Yes, it is irrelevant.

it will be there, and even if it’s not permanently available, it’s still there when it’s there. You can go throw in qpc.

[Kurfurst-1845]

@Nerv-1478

Dislike 2/2/2 all you want and have your reasons for it but don’t be ridiculous with those reasons.

Reason 1: Long Queue Times - We told you this would happen. It is irrelevant how many tanks or supports there are, and rather or not you like to play them.

Reason 2: Power Creep is real - Now people are starting to see it.

Reason 3: Unnecessary nerfs on characters especially Sombra, whom is hands down the worst character in the game compared to any other character in any theoretical sense, statistical sense, and Professional sense.

We had our reasons for disliking it, your reasons for us not stating the facts as a result of it is irrelevant.