So, in a recent article, Jeff himself has said that he wants to see Overwatch trend slightly more in the FPS direction, rather than the MOBA direction"

[LoneOneX94-1790]

@ƕlĸ-2818

You will always have some people who will be willing to play tank or support heroes regardless of their power level because they just enjoy the playstyle

There is nothing from Tanks & Healers to enjoy now. Blizzard keeps making them weaker, keeps making their jobs harder. The only ones in those categories that are fun to use, the ones that are just DPS like Hog & Lucio.

The real Tanks & Healers suck. Look at Rein alone, if no one’s pocketing him, he’s dead to just one DPS, or gets CC’d to death. Mercy’s the only good, real healer left, but she’s too easy to kill because she cant put up much of a fight in the first place. Then there’s dumb Tank teammates always rushing & getting themselves killed. Both roles have burdens that players are fed up with.

@Shy-21712

Healing is just too strong

No its not. Not when Blizzard keeps nerfing healers to the point that they’re useless. Mercy’s the only good healer left, and its just a matter of time before her heals get nerfed, making pocketing impossible.

@Pacifist-21712

yet DPS has been the worst role since season 10

Absolute bs. DPS keeps getting stronger. In fact, they were never once weak. They started strong but balanced, but then the DPS buffs started & they became broken. Look at old Junkrat, used to be hurt by his own explosives, meaning no grenade & mines spam, no 2-hit kills. But then he got buffed to no longer be hurt by them, and the spamming never stopped.

And you want to bring up Comp? DPS-loving Comp? DPS is the only role that carries & climbs. Its the role that gets to the top 500s in under a hundred matches. And that includes Hog, Lucio & others that are just DPS btw.

While the real Tank & Healers are team-reliant, they’re weak solo, they cant win if their teammates suck, and Blizzard keeps making their jobs harder by nerfing them again & again.

@Pacifist-21712

Every game is decided by tank picks,

No they’re not. Not when Reaper alone slaughters them.

@Pacifist-21712

This game is an actual moba

No its not. Its not Paladins. Blizzard doesnt allow all 3 roles to be good like Hi-Rez does in Paladins. Only DPS is strong.

@Aaronfish3-2802

let’s just destroy their characters to make the game more of an FPS and completely lose sight of what the game we all loved was

That has already been the case thanks to the OWL. But Blizzard just hasnt fully killed those two roles yet. There is no point in going Tank or Healer now, you’ll just get slaughtered by DPS

If Rein was a DPS, he’d be fun to play. No more barrier focus, no more needing to be pocketed, no more being easy prey to Reaper alone.

Those that havent accepted that Blizzard will kept nerfing Tanks & Healers to the grave at this point, are just delusional.

@Watsyurdeal-1478

heroes like Rein and Mercy exist for a reason. You are not focused on aim or combat

Which sucks in post-OWL Overwatch. It was fun focusing on defense & heals back when DPS werent op, and Rein & Mercy had their full defense & heal effectiveness. But now, Rein’s a shell or his former self & Mercy gets slaughtered by every DPS.

@Socrates-11282

So what’s the issue with them moving towards a more FPS style?

Im not saying there is. My point is that its the only way OW can be fun again & it should happen now, not when OW2 comes out.

[N7Warrior-1327]

I don’t think you’re wrong. But I think that tanks and supports as a primary focus of ally based play is going away.

Making every tank hog and support to be Zen. I can totally see removal of barriers altogether and some supports entirely lose parts of their kits.

The question of to what extent is purely on the mode of the game going forward. 321, or 411. And if 321 is two two tanks or two supports.

I don’t think the future ow will be recognizable in play, because it was just a few number tweaks. Unlike the team to individual play balance of the past, and niche to universal patches and reworks, I think we are in a place of needing to brace for more drastic overalls akin to 222

[Jessicka-1960]

@N7Warrior-1327

Making every tank hog and support to be Zen. I can totally see removal of barriers altogether and some supports entirely lose parts of their kits.

We already saw that experiment when D.Va was one-shot-comboing people. It was a disaster, both for D.Va, and DPS who cried so hard about it.

It won’t work, Tanks just won’t be allowed by DPS to actually be aggressive - it’s in many ways why we are where we are.

[GreyFalcon-11737]

Well realistically, the issue boils down to

A. Make BarrierTanks have similar lethality to offtanks, with tradeoffs to their non-barrier survival
B. Or Make it so that DoubleOffTank is almost as viable as a barriertank composition
C. Or just buff Dive Tanks and/or OffTanks a lot

[Jessicka-1960]

I’d like to see B.

But again, how do we reconcile that with DPS who don’t want Tanks to DPS.

[N7Warrior-1327]

@LoneOneX94-1790

My point is that its the only way OW can be fun again & it should happen now, not when OW2 comes out.

Agreed. This is a change in direction that the slow burn doesn’t lend itself well to.

If they want brawl tanks, or 411 or whatever- it needs to be one huge patch and soon. You tweak as you go from there

@Jessicka-1960

We already saw that experiment when D.Va was one-shot-comboing people. It was a disaster, both for D.Va, and DPS who cried so hard about it.

Oh you aren’t wrong. But we also had more tanks even allowed. I don’t know how this would be seen in a 411 situation . And in a situation where it’s not just dva, but every single tank is out there bringing hands to faces

[harmicist-1221]

I read it more as “we’re trying out different ways of tanking in the game and that’s an idea we’ve floated and might test around.” I’m someone who likes Sigma, D.va and Zarya, so I’m a bit more mixed as to tanks than you are, but I’m at least willing to see what new ideas they might have to the role to make it a bit more…balanced and less feast or famine-y

To the dps above me- devs have already confirmed they dont think 411 is fun. tanks/supports don’t think 411 is fun. good dps don’t generally think 411 is fun or even very…strategic. 411 is not fun. 321 wasn’t really fun either, even on games you won.

[Socrates-11282]

@LoneOneX94-1790

Im not saying there is. My point is that its the only way OW can be fun again & it should happen now, not when OW2 comes out

Ah, fair enough

@Jessicka-1960

It won’t work, Tanks just won’t be allowed by DPS to actually be aggressive - it’s in many ways why we are where we are.

DPS players don’t choose how the game is balanced…

[Jessicka-1960]

@Socrates-11282

DPS players don’t choose how the game is balanced…

You’d think they did the way they cry when Supports and Tanks with offensive strength start to see some action.

That’s the whole point of the meddling with Moira, is it not?

[Watsyurdeal-1478]

@LoneOneX94-1790

But now, Rein’s a shell or his former self & Mercy gets slaughtered by every DPS.

And yet Rein is picked fairly often, and imo still fun to play.

He may need some buffs but he’s still a solid hero

Mercy is just done wrong, her revive and damage boost don’t jive well with her movement. I’d prefer they rework her to emphasize moving from target to target to revive or boost their power with blessings.

[MagyTheMage-1534]

@Homosapein-1300

As someone whose favorite tanks have been Sigma, Orisa, and Reinhardt, hearing that their current trends in tank philosophy is “what if every tank was like Roadhog” trying to remove barriers entirely and scrapping plans for any future barrier tank is very disheartening.

same here bro

if i wanted to play DPS, id play DPS, not tank

[Socrates-11282]

@Jessicka-1960

You’d think they did the way they cry when Supports and Tanks with offensive strength start to see some action.

That’s everyone, but OK. You assume that DPS players are the only ones that don’t like heroes being OP.

@Jessicka-1960

That’s the whole point of the meddling with Moira, is it not?

No. The devs stated that they want her to feel more rewarding to play.

[ImEdible-21436]

Hmm… This is one of the times I need to disagree with Jeff Kaplan. I don’t know what happened to uncle Jeff, but I can not understand him anymore.

I love Overwatch for what it is. A MOBA/FPS hybrid. Making the game more FPS destroys its identity. I don’t want Overwatch to be like Valorant or something.

I also like how Paladins balanced the fps part and moba part. Both games have good things and bad things.

Overwatch has fun hero designs, complex hero synergy and loveable characters.
Paladins has wonderful looking characters, epic skins and you can carry as every single character.

Though…
Overwatch has too many 1-shots, CCs, painful queue times (even for me as a support) and questionable balancing.
Paladins has very bad server performance, PS2 graphics, charging an attack as Sha Lin or Imani breaks your computer, and the skins are too expensive or only exclusive for a limited time, never to be seen again.

In my opinion, having too much damage in Overwatch whould break the reason to play tank or support. Which transforms into even more painful queue times for dps in role que.
Also in open queue, playing dps only whould not only be more fun for everyone, it whould also make the most sense. Why whould you need a tank, when the shield breaks in 1s anyway?

[harmicist-1221]

a lot of dps players in this thread seem to think that because they have the highest queues no one wants to tank and support. Support is my favorite role by far, tanking behind it, and then DPS.

[GreyFalcon-11737]

@N7Warrior-1327

But I think that tanks and supports as a primary focus of ally based play is going away.

@Jessicka-1960

I’d like to see B.

But again, how do we reconcile that with DPS who don’t want Tanks to DPS.

Well, one of the biggest things blocking that is how effective Bionade is at shutting Tanks down.

Was working on a fix for that.

Ana

Biotic Grenade

• Damage increased to 100, up from 60.
• Explosion radius for damage/heals stays at 8m diameter.
• Anti-Heal radius decreased to 1m diameter.

[Aaronfish3-2802]

@LoneOneX94-1790

If Rein was a DPS, he’d be fun to play. No more barrier focus, no more needing to be pocketed, no more being easy prey to Reaper alone.

Rein is fun to his players because of his barrier and his tankiness, take away that and he’s just a bad melee character with no way to close the gap and nothing to keep his players with him.

@LoneOneX94-1790

Those that havent accepted that Blizzard will kept nerfing Tanks & Healers to the grave at this point, are just delusional.

Not delusional just hopeful blizz keeps the roles at least fun

[MagyTheMage-1534]

some of the DPS are fun, i will admit, and my most played hero is still a DPS.

but i still prefer Tanks Overall.

[Jessicka-1960]

@ImEdible-21436

I love Overwatch for what it is. A MOBA/FPS hybrid. Making the game more FPS destroys its identity. I don’t want Overwatch to be like Valorant or something.

Well if he didn’t want it MOBA he would never have instroduced Role Lock. Making it more FPS simply won’t work with Role Lock, because different roles are different - it has to be OQ if you want a more FPS direction for more overlap and hybrid options.

@Socrates-11282

That’s everyone, but OK. You assume that DPS players are the only ones that don’t like heroes being OP.

So how do you square that? He wants everyone more DPSy for a more FPSy game, but players don’t actually want DPSy Tanks and Supports.

I mean, hell, they made Echo a DPS precisely for this reason.

[N7Warrior-1327]

I mean, if I wanted to play csgo or counterstrike or apex…I’d be there.

I didn’t want symm 3.0 . I didn’t even want 2.0 . Or sombra76, or main healer brig. I like anchor tank orisa. Not bastion with a shield.

Dems the breaks. Apparently we are a class of people just not popular enough to keep the game alive. Or the fps crowd ate too many of us away (that’s my personal belief)

@Socrates-11282

The devs stated that they want her to feel more rewarding to play.

From who? Moira was never a popular hero. People who liked her liked her

@GreyFalcon-11737

Well, one of the biggest things blocking that is how effective Bionade is at shutting Tanks down.

Yeah I already said that imo, bio nade could be removed and gone from the game entirely and you won’t have people moving to tank. All you’ll do is make more people stop playing Ana.

@Jessicka-1960

it has to be OQ if you want a more FPS direction for more overlap and hybrid options.

I don’t think this is the case depending on how they built it.

Maybe they can switch it to 411 or 321 easier now. I mean…we already had an experimental that shows it’s possible.

Role lock of 222 just being one of the things added and gone over time…

[GreyFalcon-11737]

@N7Warrior-1327

Yeah I already said that imo, bio nade could be removed and gone from the game entirely and you won’t have people moving to tank. All you’ll do is make more people stop playing Ana.

Which is true.

You’d also need some way to reduce Ult charge feeding on Tanks a lot.

Then it would work.

What I got so far on that.