Despite having multiple threads its clear nothing will be done so just stop playing this hero already and lets retire the robot for good.
4 Likes
Who gave you the right to tell me what to play?
13 Likes
Past four reworks were complete failures. Torb will be made worse soon. Still nothing for Bastion really, in addition to several other low tier heroes.
Instead of not playing Bastion, maybe itās time we just stop playing.
3 Likes
I gave this ability to myself and can not be questioned.
2 Likes
You know on paper bastion is really strong
300 hp - no crit box when in turret form
450 DPS (before falloff)
Self heals whenever he wants
But the main problem when he canāt move he can have up to 6 enemies focusing him, thatās why he needs a shield to work well
And since he does have a crit box when heās in turret form heās hit harder by flanks than most heroes
What I think he needs is less falloff range or something
Never
Literally below a quarter of bullets will hit though.
Unless you are standing point blank in front of him his damage means nothing.
Him being immobile isnāt the problem, thatās just the shettey mobility creep thats been happening. His problem is that heās designed to fit into a niche that is so pointless it makes him useless.
His damage is only good for ābarrier bustingā which is irrelevant since Barriers arenāt the end-all be-all for this game. Thereās 99 other ways to punish a rein rather than picking Bastion.
Then even if you take his niche of ābarrier bustingā seriously, there are countless other heros who do his job better than he can.
Hanzo with his E and mobility.
Junkrat with his second mine.
Sym, until we get confirmation that sheās useless.
2 Likes
Maybe its time to rework Bastion to a tank hero? 
He can move while in sentry mode (like his ult) but with reduced movementspeed and some more drawback. (Damageoutput?) Make him tankier and som way to protect his team.
1 Like
Falloff change helped him a bit, more than most people probably have realized yet.
That said, heās honestly way too squishy. Perhaps the answer is not to increase ironclad (although a minor buff to it could still work), but give him a higher percentage as armor and reduce self-repairās regen speed so that he doesnāt have insurmountable self-sustain.
He can move while in sentry mode (like his ult) but with reduced movementspeed and some more drawback.
Iāve been saying for a while that allowing bastion to move slowly while turret is deployed and very slowly while firing in turret mode would be a game changer, since it would allow him to more effectively utilize corners and not be so reliant on shields. Even that change by itself would vastly increase his skill ceiling.
Heās still viable in pirate ship comp on the payloadā¦ thatās about it tho
I feel like itās going to be a race between Bastion and Sombra at this point.
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Who wouldāve thought that a stationary hero would be weak?
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Tbh hes cancer to this game in my eyes. He needs reworked harder than sym with no trace of what he is right now left. I wouldnāt play this game with bastion in meta.
2 Likes
I will only say this once, so read it however many times you need to, to fully understand what iām saying.
I will Never allow Bastion to be āRetiredā
Even if i end up being the only Damn player stupid enough to play the hero, i Will Not Be told āWe just give upā
If they want to fix their game, perhaps they should start by talking with the people who PLAY IT.
And YOU.
Ohā¦ i know you wellā¦
Either go try playing the hero yourself, Or concede that you donāt have the knowledge to be making such large sweeping statements.
Thank you for your In depth input into the conversation, If anyone wants to find me, Iāll be proposing the hundredth different change idea in our list, over in the Bastion Megathread.
[š Bastion ISNāT being forgotten, heās being ignored]
GOOD DAY.
1 Like
![:wink:](https://d74zh8edaijub.cloudfront.net/en/overwatch/images/emoji/twitter/wink.png?v=5" ":wink:")
He does insane damage that a buff to range or spread would just obliterate everything. He cant be viable without mobility and that would be a disaster and bane to anyone that doesnt main him. I wasnt saying I want him trash just not like he is right now you arnt happy with his current state as a bastion main and i dont want buffs to make him even more of a pain than he already is. It might of been condescending the way I put it but I really do think a rework is the best option
1 Like
The funniest part here?
We agree with you.
You are still rather uninformed, butā¦ iām not going to tell you how to play Tracer, now am i!!!
the thing isā¦ Bastion doesnāt need straight āBuffsā Or āNerfsā
Firstly, you need to get that āBinaryā Out of your head.
(Jokes)
But iām serious.
Itās not either or, and if you would allow, iāll Try to explain it as calmly as i can, without my blood boiling off. (Itās not youā¦ itās the devs)
OK.
Here we goā¦
Bastionās Spread holds him back from being an aim intensive hero, Andā¦ without the reward that most heroes get through headshots, Bastion mains and players alike are essentially LOCKED At a skill cap ceilingā¦ Beyond which no skill matters when it involves his gameplayā¦
SO. Lets get to the meaty partā¦
Bastionās MAXIMUM Damage, from a full clip, (Which takes time to fire the entire thing, i might add) Is 450, That isā¦ Calculated with EVERY BULLET HITTING THE TARGET. As inā¦ Only 450, if you Do. Not. Miss.
NOW. How often does Bastion miss, and at what ranges?
I now refer you to this:
[Bastion's real damage output (kinda)]
THAT^ Is a chart of sorts, showing the near exact (If not totally exact) Calculations of what misses where.
NOW.
Bastion does NOT Need mobility.
Why?
Bastionās playstyle Mirrors Mobility heroesā¦ As in, Heās the stationary target, that is easy to fight when moving, and hard to fight when standing still.
Aka, Bastion doesnāt need to be an unkillable MONSTER When in Sentry, but a Glass Cannon.
You Are A Tracer mainā¦ Yea?
Take a momentā¦ And try to imagine being a Tracer, unable to move, And unable to land headshots. And now, you have roadhogās hitbox.
Ohā¦ and you have a head on your back.
Sound fun?
I DIDNāT THINK SO.
Bastion needs to lay down Suppressive fire.
Do NOT Get this confused with āSpray and Prayā
Hereās the descriptions of each:
-
Spray and pray: Spray and pray is a derisive term for firing an automatic firearm towards an enemy in long bursts, without making an effort to line up each shot or burst of shots. This is especially prevalent amongst those without benefit of proper training.
-
Suppressive Fire: Suppressive fire usually achieves its effect by threatening casualties to individuals who expose themselves to it.
And outside of suppressive fire, when actually hitting an exposed target, the damage needs to high. Why? With the ways to attack and punish a stationary target, Bastion is meant to Commit to being in sentry (I personally loved the old transformation timesā¦ the longer ones) And in that commitment, you are either punishedā¦ Killed or forced to move away, Or you are rewarded for Tactics, timing, and overall gamesenseā¦
Not to mentionā¦ Bastionās sentry mode is a PURE Aim, mode.
The aim should matter 100x more than it currently does (Reduced spread) And that aim should be rewarded more as well (A headshot modifierā¦ maybe not full, But some)
Edit: allow me to add this in hereā¦
Ironclad: And why i want it gone. At leastā¦ mostly.
Most Bastion mains donāt like it, and donāt see much of a need for itā¦
It reduces a Tiny Bit of Damage, butā¦ Also promotes Pocketing.
And i would love to see it go. Mostly.
My preferred way of dealing with this?
Only have ironclad active, during healing.
(Like Roady!)
Heās not shooting while heās healing, It has a resource limit that can be exhausted, and would only help to save him when he Needs it.
NOWā¦ Uhā¦ Let me catch my breathā¦
WAIT.
Iām typing this, why would i have to-
Bastionās Sentry gun, does not at ALL Need to Support The spray and prey behaviorā¦ Before, it only had 200 rounds, and if you spent them hitting the wall, Now you had to reload, Putting yourself at greater riskā¦
I would LOVE To see 100 ammo removed from his Magazine.
Pleaseā¦ If you would be so kindā¦ Read this postā¦ And maybe we can discuss Bastionās balance?
Iām truly sorry for my angerā¦ and i wish to apologize for my aggressive nature, towards this subjectā¦ Please forgive?
Pharahā¦ i can only hope iāve done you justiceā¦ I will NEVER Give up on Bastion, and i have you to Thank for that. 
2 Likes
Naw youd probably try to keep me from my easy PB picks from bastions 
It does but it also gives others a fair chance to find cover or even get in range to deal with him. Narrowing the spread would just make him shred shields and squishies even easier than he already does. Or am I missing something?
Isnt it really 525 for every bullet without a shot missed? Thatās a crap load of damage. Enough to deal with tanks (mostly) and and every other hero. Now in reality we both know itās nowhere near 525 or even 450 but its leaves plenty of room for mistakes and to still be able to reliable get a couple picks per clip in ideal situations
Not gonna lie Iām pretty sure Iām missing your point. Are you saying hes like a tracer/genji/sombra already just without the mobility or he is there designated target? Iād 100% disagree with the first point theres no situation Iād ever expect to see a bastion in my teams backline ( unless there doing that 200IQ lucio speedboat combo I literally cant deal with that strategy in any impactful way) and if your saying hes there target then yeah, your right hes a primary target even above supports usually because of the next point your going to make.
I get that and Iād even argue he does this fairly well already about as much as youd want a singular hero to be able to bring the bulk of the enemy team to near standstill. I main rein in comp and I dont think you realize just how impossible it is to get your team moving to side path literally right in front of you when theres a boosted bastion zeroād in on your shield.
Yeah but thatās just a straight nerf or is it supposed to be compensation for his reduced spread? If so that actually sounds very agreeable since a competent flanker (the person usually harassing a well guarded bastion) usually doesnt have a problem with ironclad and they will be so close that the spread reduction doesnt effect his counters in any meaningful way it would just make him better at his job while being slightly easier for flankers to counter him.
This just seems like a straight nerf to him too tho. Did you leave out buffs or am I missing something? I honestly think he could be reworked while keeping his identity. He has an awesome concept but too much damage and not enough escape options. Reminds me of a more extreme version of pre rework hanzo honestly. Iām not pretending to have answers but just consider the sheer number of changes you just went through that you want. At that point I would argue reworking him and keeping his ult and turret modes core to the rework would be just as simple and he could end up coming out with a more diverse and fun kit while also being less suppressing to the people fighting him. Just a thought tho chibi dont gut me if you choose to respond lol
He isnāt though, since Pirate Ship itself is so easily broken up now.
Iām not gunna gut ya budā¦ 
You did miss a few points thoā¦
(I am dyslexic, soā¦ i probably screwed up somewhere in that mess)
I donāt know where the backline thing came fromā¦ but my original point was, Bastion is like a Tracer, that cannot move, headshot, Or escape.
(And the rest of the post explains why he doesnāt need an escape ability anyways)
No. Itās 450.
And once again, thatās if every pellet hits, You really should look over this chart, itās Very Interesting at other ranges above point blank:
EXACTLY! Now youāre getting it!
Iām trying to balance everything at once.
The Bastion, The flankers, ALL Fair by that point.
And no one is angry after the fight is lost. 
Edit: Didnāt mean to post this yetā¦ OOPS.
THIS^ Is mostly what i was talking about originallyā¦
It IS Possible, and what i suggested is possibly the most reasonable outcome for everyone involved.
This is part of the big picture that i failed to get acrossā¦
Bastionās playstyle is SO Different than most heroesā¦
He just Doesnāt need Any form of mobility, or āEscapeā To be viable again.
He just needs for his kit to favor itās own pieces and parts.
Iām so glad to have at least opened your eyes to the possibilitiesā¦
(If i even haveā¦ i hope so.)
Bastion is justā¦ A shell of what he once wasā¦
Itās not about the raw damage, itās about the balance between raw damage, and the situations itās used in.
Thisā¦ iām glad you brought this up, because i donāt think i got something across very wellā¦
This part^ Bastion required a lot of resource management, and in needing that, he couldnāt just āSpray and prayā If he targeted a shield, that usually spent his clipā¦ forcing a reload, or forcing him to stand up and move.
He needs this resource management back, in Ammo and healing (Damage reduction on that healing too!)
The scenario i was suggesting wasnāt that heās in the backline, itās that he Feels like a Tracer, in the middle of Battle, that cannot move, headshot, Ect.
Ok. I want to address this in particularā¦ as i count it as āSpray and prayā Behaviorā¦ The changes i listed above, would in all reality mean that if the shield heās shooting goes down, the Bastion is instantly left Very Vulnerable, as he would have spent his clip, and been sent into either a reload, or sent runningā¦ Soā¦
Bastion would actually be weaker in some regards towards Tanks from afar, and shields when stacked (with their tanks)
and yeaā¦ Like you stated here:
These āNerfsā would balance his other areas of his kit, All at once.
(In theory) 
while also making him more consistent to fight.
You might be missing the grand pictureā¦ The āBuffsā In question, would be fixing his Sentry gun (Lowered spread, headshotsā¦ Ect.) Then, while you have better damage, you have less room to make any mistakes.
(Requiring better overall aim, and positioning, Ect.)
That is the exact reason why i would call everything i suggested here a āReworkā
(Even though it would technically be reverting some data values)