Our Attitude To Lower Ranks Is Toxic

Competitive Discussion
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I don’t post here on the forums but I feel very strongly about this and I’m going to say it.

The attitude that Plat+ players like myself have towards lower tier players is awful. Any time they come to these forums with a genuine problem, we always blame them. Smurfs aren’t a problem, the bronze is obviously just not good enough. It isn’t the fault of the thrower in silver that’s holding them back: They obviously need to work on their aim. When in reality anyone Plat+ understands why we create smurf accounts: Plat+ is toxic and filled with just as many throwers that ruin games. So we create low-elo smurfs to actually have fun - because even if a bronze/silver player on our team is throwing, we can carry and be impactful.

At the same time we do this, we tell the lower-elo players that they’re just simply bad and need to improve. I’ve seen many silver and gold players who can hold their own in higher elos when they have a competent team. So no: You know as well as I do that the inherent problem is not that they need to ‘get gud’.

Until Blizzard and until WE, Plat+ players begin to stop crapping all over lower tiered players - until WE stop dismissing their complaints, their feelings and frustrations this game is nothing but doomed. This game is becoming all about the top 5% of its player base. We see how well running the economy based on the top 5% is working for America. Trickle down economics doesn’t work and dismissing the 95% will not fix what is inherently flawed with the system.

  • We need PBSR
  • We need two modes of competitive: Solo Competitive and Group Competitive
  • Rather than making smurfing a bannable offense, the Devs need to tweak their algorithms to detect smurfs and to use the PBSR system to hyper-boost those players back to where they should be.
  • We need to start looking at balance changes NOT based on the highest tiers of play, but across all tiers of play: This game is not ‘just’ for the Esports pros. Heroes are being ruined by catering their kits to the top 5% of the player base with zero regard for the impact it has on lower elos: This is inherently bad for the game overall.

There’s plenty of other changes that need to be made but it starts with us:

Stop telling people to ‘get gud’.

(INB4 Diamond+ players slam me for being 2600)

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That’s all there is to it. I got gud and escaped the low ranks.

Plat is a low rank.

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I think a lot of higher ranked players have a bad attitude toward low tier players. When a low tier player genuinely asks for help they deserve to get good advice and not just “git gud”.

However, when a low tier player blames:

  • smurfs
  • throwers
  • bad team mates
  • the SR system
  • the match maker

for their inability to climb, it really shows how little they understand the game.

This type of low tier forum posters need to learn that those things aren’t holding them back and that they need some introspection. I don’t think ragging on them or simply saying “git gud” is the right way to teach that. However sometimes they are stubborn and remain adamant that nothing is their own fault. In those cases I will be blunt and just tell them the truth. Which they inevitably consider to be trolling so they ignore it - and remain in the same low tier.

Low tier players with good attitudes don’t remain low tier for so long.

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But still higher than at least 60% of accounts. While there is a vast gulf in skill between plat and GM I don’t think top 40% should be called low.

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Everyone is in the same cesspool of:

No it isn’t exclusively a Gold and below based problem. However, gold players lack the game sense, team coordination and mechanics to rise above these issues like the higher ranks do.

It just sucks that because the issues don’t pertain to many higher players, they dismiss the issues of lower ranks because it doesn’t directly harm their experience. However, just because it doesn’t happen to you, doesn’t mean it isn’t ruining the experience of other gamers.

I’m a high gold/low plat player for many seasons, and I know I am where I belong.

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Huh? You just wrote it yourself. The lower players aren’t good enough to overcome those shortcomings of their teams. Higher skilled players are. Doesn’t it make sense, then, that if someone doesn’t have the skill to deal with something at that rank then hey don’t deserve to be higher?

Also, I often see my team mates making mistakes, or a thrower, or a smurf, or whatever BS (I’m in plat, we’re hardly perfect at the game). The difference is I know if I want to climb higher I need to improve my own play.

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Great! Then you aren’t the type of player I was referring to in my first post. :slight_smile:

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I was agreeing with you…

I was just saying that higher level players can combat the aforementioned issues to a greater extent that lower level players, so higher levels become jaded and unfriendly towards the plight of a silver player because they have already overcome those hurdles.

We’re all in the same boat, but it’s rude for diamonds to say that it’s not an issue for them and dismiss it out of hand, when it could be the reason that a silver player puts the game down and never revisits it. Understand where I was coming from now? I was not making a case for them to climb, I was making a case for them to have their concerns met with more than: “git gud lul”.

I am agreeing with the OP and you at the same time.

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Ah, I’m with you now. Thanks for clarifying.

I think it sucks that lower tier players might leave because they feel held back by “the man”. But at the same time I also think if they want to play a competitive game then they should expect it to be hard and if they want to climb they should expect to have to improve. Perhaps people without that attitude are better off playing different modes (or games. Not because I’m some sort of Overwatch snob, but they should enjoy what they play and they clearly aren’t enjoying competitive Overwatch.

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I think something that a lot of people aren’t taking into account is this:

Not everyone is capable of reaching Diamond+: Not because they aren’t willing to try and improve, not that they don’t put in the time, work and hours that it takes TO improve - but that everyone’s skill has its limit.

Some people have disabilities, some people are aging and just don’t have the reaction time that it takes to see those vast improvements. Hand-eye coordination deteriorates. A hard pill to swallow: ‘You just aren’t good enough to play the game’ - I’ve heard that one before as a reason why low elo players with those issues should just be ignored.

I think the game should be fun and engaging for everyone: No matter your skill. I can tell you right now playing against a Pharah after her buffs in sub 500 elo play is absolute HELL.. It’s easy to aim and get eliminations with her because no one on the ground can touch you. A body shot here and there if they’re absolutely lucky. Players in that elo have just come to accept if someone on the enemy team picks Pharah it’s pretty much game-over. (Is that really fun? She got buffed for higher tier players. She destroyed teams before the buff and now she ravages them without a Mercy pocket.

This is where a plethora of people will just say; “Learn how to improve your aim.” and “Git gud scrub.” The ‘problem’ isn’t really a ‘problem.’. To which I say: “It’s not a problem for you and I: But it’s a problem for them.”

This is like saying poverty isn’t a problem just because we have good jobs. It’s really an absurd ideology that somehow, we’ve all come to just accept in the competitive game market.

Anyone can tell you that in order to climb out of low elos you need to be able to get in and basically frag the enemy team to death and outplay 3/4’s of their team single-handedly. You can’t rely on your teammates because they are uncoordinated and their game sense is 5x worse than my own in plat. I saw someone mention in a post: “I can kill four of the enemy team and watch 5 of my teammates die to a soldier and a sombra.” - That sums up Bronze/Silver perfectly. Hell, I’ve been in a silver game where I killed 5 enemies and a solitary Zenyatta killed all 5 of my team.

I have played multiple games in bronze/silver where there are leavers on your team sometimes 6/12 games because of the salt and toxicity that picking Widow or Genji instantly creates. (They’re used to horrible Widows/Genjis in that elo). If I weren’t a plat Genji main, there’d be very little chance of carrying a team a man down to victory. It WOULD ‘almost’ force a 50/50 winrate on you. (Not Blizzard’s fault on leavers, mind you.)

Mind you I’m not saying players in Bronze/Silver all deserve to be plat, Diamond or higher: Obviously, if they belong in Diamond they’ll climb - because they can hard carry with their skill. I do think, however, that there’s a lot of people stuck in Bronze and Silver who can easily hold their own in mid to high gold who get stuck in Bronze/Silver due to really crappy RNG with leavers, throwers and smurfs. I can’t ignore their pleas for Blizzard to do something because I’ve seen it first hand.

There was another person who said that they lost 5 games in a row due to the same smurfs on the enemy team one night. The next day they were ‘super positive with their team’ and managed to win 5 games. I asked if they got back all of their SR from the losses: “Well no, I lost more than I gained.” - Because that system feels good or is even fair? Of course they lost more SR than they gained back because with smurfs on the enemy team you aren’t accomplishing anything and your game stats are going to be extremely low: So the game thinks you performed very poorly and makes you lose a ton of SR with each loss. That’s the thing that needs to be fixed. Hard to perform well when the enemy Widow has 42 critical scoped hits.

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Honestly people (higher ranks) here are very receptive to low players that:
1: Admit they have faults
2: Ask for genuine help
3: Have a good attitude
They are not to:
1: Those with delusions of grandeur
2: Those that argue they know better than those ranks above them
3: Those who claim (insert excuse) are why they’re trapped
4: Those who think those better than them are lucky but also whine smurfs wreck them.

And I’m a Gold player that seems to have higher ups’ respect and the ire of the whiners. Win-win imo

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They do not get respect from 90% of the ‘higher up’ community.

“How do I deal with leavers?”

They’ll just get told to ‘git gud’ as always. ‘try harder’ the next game.

How to deal with a Pharah?

‘Go McCree. Improve your aim. Git gud’.

That’s the only advice they get on these forums. ‘If you can’t kill a Pharah you suk lul.’


DongQuixote

1821 posts

20d

Stop using LFG.
Focus on your own play.
Review your own vods.
Review vods with a higher ranked player.
Git guder.

That’s all you can do.

4 Replies

^ See?

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I get it. I’ve asked for VOD reviews and even got a low Masters to coach me. I get quite comprehensive advice and am told I need to get better but try this. Maybe your attitude is your main issue.

Ex^

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If you look through my posts, I also offer to review vods if anyone posts them. Without a video, the best we can offer is garbage general advice.

And the example answers you gave are incomplete at best. How would I actually answer those questions?

Nothing you can do. Accept it and move on to the next one.

Depends on what role you’re playing. If you’re a dps, play close to teammates who can help you and call out when you need help with her. Pharah on her own is easy enough to handle, but a Pharmercy is a team effort.

If you’re not dps, then you support whoever is trying to take them out as the time while putting as much pressure on them as possible.

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And yet that lower elo person you told to ‘git guder’ in your earlier post go no such advice for their problems other than ‘review videos.’ and ‘git guder’.

At this point saying ‘watch vods’ and ‘git gud’ is just old and pathetic. No crap. Everyone knows the first.

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If that is the case then why do so few low ranks do it?.. also you conveniently dodged my linked post of VOD review where many higher ups chimed in despite my less than stellar performance.

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I mean yes… I kind of did ignore the fact that you asked for a VOD review then argued with 98% of people why you were right and GM’s were wrong. You are the person that you described people not wanting to help.

After reading that VOD thread I’m not really sure why anyone agreed to help you to be honest. I wouldn’t want to help someone who made excuses for literally every bad thing that they did in a match.

This thread is about how higher tiered players generally treat low elo players on these forums not necessarily when they are asked to review a video - but in general. Of course sometimes it’s just someone in a lower elo with their profile private and tells everyone else to ‘git gud’ to tilt them. (You know who you are.)

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I didn’t argue near that much with them but be dismissive if you so desire. I made my point and you’re the type to see contrary evidence then dismiss it as an anomaly rather than think maybe you were wrong. They really are helpful and give their time to aid those who ask for it for free. That kinda shatters your narrative though.

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Like I said. Without gameplay, we can only give garbage general advice. And the thing is, that information is already out there and has been said a thousand times. Yet they post here without a vod and private profiles and somehow expect something different and new. What more do you expect? The only answer if you post here without something specific I can help with is exactly what I posted.

But what usually happens is this.

“How can I get better?”
“Here’s some general advice, but post a video of your gameplay, and we can try to help.”
“But throwers and smurfs!”
“Post a video of your gameplay, and we can try to help.”
crickets

The fact of the matter is that these people are not willing to accept that they will need to take this game more seriously than just boot up and mindlessly play (which there’s absolutely nothing wrong with) in order to improve if they haven’t climbed naturally in quite some time. They want to read some magical tip that will shoot them straight to GM without requiring them to do anything different.

As for why I didn’t offer to review that person’s vod… Quite frankly, I probably didn’t feel like it that day. But I put it in the list. If they seriously want to improve, they can find somebody to review their vod. It’s really as simple as posting a thread here or on /r/overwatchuniversity or finding a coaching Discord through a quick Google search. Or they could have asked, “Hey, do you know where I can get a vod reviewed?”

And must I remind you of what that OP replied?

Once again. He’s not looking for actual help. He wants validation or the magical quick tip that does not exist.

It’s kind of like someone asking for help losing weight and getting the answer “eat healthier and exercise more” then arguing with it. Like dude, that’s the answer. There’s more to it if you want to look into it, and you can do that with somebody knowledgeable about it, but that’s the gist of it. Without asking specific questions, you won’t get specific answers.

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I couldn’t agree with you more. In-fact i have been trying to be informative to players posting about this. I get flamed by the masses for it.