Reading from her perspective in the books is pretty eye opening. In the first three books you are from the outside looking in. In the fourth book you get to see how crazy she actually is, by seeing how she processes situations.
I believe there can be a balance on both ends. This is a thread promoting movements against the toxicity, not promoting shutting down meaningful discussion. So while I see your point, I’m sorry, but I’m going to have to disagree with you both on that. I believe there is a way to keep things positive in a thread that has gone toxic and bring it back on track, without becoming toxic in turn. But that’s just my 2 cents and we’re going to have to agree to disagree on that.
Where have I written that a signature is required to being a good person? Such a claim hasn’t been made.
Once again, where have I said that the movements need to be “tied to an overwatch hero?” No such claim was made. People have different ways to express themselves. Some make threads, and others make signatures. There isn’t a “right or wrong” way towards being positive or promoting and / or expressing it. You can do so in whatever way you wish. And that’s the great thing about being in a community.
And I disagree with your post, and think that they help spread positivity. But hey! To each their own indeed, and thanks for sharing your opinion! We’ll have to agree to disagree on that.
~Sincerely Yours xoxo,
a Lover of True, Fair, and Fun Balance. xavvypls
I never stated that you said it however all of these parties do this exact thing. You didn’t need to say it when it was obvious.
I also never said that you stated they needed to be, but they all are. It’s an observation. I can’t ask a question without you assuming I am stating you said all these things? You like these movements and I don’t so i asked questions about things I do no like about them. If I was going to state that you said them I would have quoted your post directly with you stating it.
Everytime I hear the lines of “It’s obvious”, “It’s just common sense” or “Everyone knows this”, I will have to bring attention to the fact that we will need to realize that one is giving an opinion and wanting me to assume it as fact.
I hope you will understand that in this case, without the proof, I will have to disagree with you and say that it isn’t “obvious” unless actual proof is given. So I will have to ask you then to be sure.
Do you then have proof that “all of these parties do this?” And that they each have stated specifically that they do this “Because it is required to be a good person?” as you have claimed? Because if that is what you are saying, I would like a list of every member from every group that have made this statement, supporting that, if you would.
Well, If you are making an observation, and I am asking you what you have observed, then I would then expect an answer based on the data and not opinion right? An observation is when you collect information after studying something very closely, and recognizing a fact or proof. If there is no facts or proof there to back up your observation and you are making it up based on your own perception of what you think you’ve observed, then it isn’t an observation anymore, and it becomes an assumption.
Regardless, I think you kind of already got your answer. If you are asking questions on things like:
And the answer you got was “There isn’t any requirement to do those things, and no black or white rule that this is the only way to be a good person, but we can agree to disagree on how we feel about it” then… I’m sorry, but is there problem at this point then? I respect your dislike for movements, and we agreed to disagree. And that is fine.
~Sincerely Yours xoxo,
a Lover of True, Fair, and Fun Balance. xavvypls
First post has the signature both including the character and the movement.
I could make 99 quotes on this one.
Another
Another
4 in one thread alone. Now lets move on to motives.
It’s not just about being positive but they also want something from the deal. A movement that is suppose to help against toxicity wants an emote as compensation for being good people.
Oh wait that is not all from the same thread.
Oh so it’s about Ice Cream and being positive is a side goal that takes a back seat to an emote?
So basically when a thread turns negative ping some random people on discord which can further fuel the flames. You can’t fight fire with fire and trying to do the work that people are paid to do is not their job.
Hell you’re right it isn’t a requirement but it sure does look like it is with how common it is to see.
That’s how extremism works. What is happening here is that a complex issue such as being a jerk on the internet is being reduced to a binary one by the presentation of an extreme solution. And so, we either support this new brigading movement or we risk becoming one of its targets.
The good news is that it will be short lived, and will end in one of two ways. Either (1) they will realize that they don’t have the authority to enforce this sort of thing and will let it go in realizing that it only creates more toxicity, or (2) it is forcibly shut down by the people that do have that authority after a whole lot of people have their level revoked, their accounts suspended or even banned permanently. Maybe they even take away the ability to have a signature altogether.
I am hoping that they come to do the first option before the second becomes reality.
I understand the intention behind these threads. My point was that, regardless of your intent, dividing the community further and self elevating members of the community to fight toxicity can often have the opposite effect.
I don’t think concepts like toxicity are clearly defined necessarily and can mean different things for different people. I do not believe self appointed moderation is a wise way to handle that. Let’s say I was part of said movement and aI think someone is being toxic, yet you yourself do not hold that same belief. Is it okay if we get into a discussion about someone else’s behavior and derail things? Is it okay while one of us tries to steer things away while the other wants to continue the discussion with said individual? Wouldn’t that lead to confusion for everyone involved and arguably potentially just lead to more arguments?
What if we simply misunderstand the other person because either they were not clear or we simply misunderstood because we’re human and make mistakes? Or what if certain peope just start posting the signature with the sole intent to use that status as a way to wield a bat against others which is itself very toxic?
It seems shortsighted to me, and I haven’t seen any posts that really assauge these concerns.
I think you misunderstood me or I did not convey myself clearly. I don’t disagree with the idea that we can fight toxicity or help get threads back on track at all. I disagree with the idea that we need “movements” to do so. I think the ideas of a group trying to mediate threads sends a bad message to the rest of the community. It tells everyone else that there is a power imbalance.
I think we should let the moderators do their job. They do need help with their job. That’s why we can report posts. It’s to help them notice potentially problematic posts or posters. We can steer a discussion back on topic by simply talking to one another on friendly terms and or focusing on the discussion. The idea of a movement does nothing other than act as a show of force, which I don’t think we need in order to help battle toxicity.
I hope you understand where I was coming from. The point is that none of those people stated that they “had to do it in order to be a good person.” They’re just doing it because they enjoy the idea of spreading positivity. And I personally don’t see any problem with that. As I said, I understand if you hate sigs or movements or whatever, but there is no obsolete rule at play that says you need a signature in order to be positive nor is there a rule that says you must exclude them to make constructive posts. Just let em have their fun if it isn’t harming anyone else, is all I’m saying there.
My “task” isn’t to “convince you or change your mind.” My task is to share why I like the idea of movements that share positivity, and voice my thoughts about them.
Whether you like or dislike that opinion is perfectly fine. That isn’t a concern, and I quite frankly, couldn’t care less about what you think of mine or anyone else’s signature. That is your opinion, and I respect it. The point is, I and those who post with them like them, and we are also entitled to our own opinion as you are with yours - whether you like it or not. You are free to believe whatever you want about them, it won’t stop me nor anyone else from using them in our posts. So as I said before on this topic, we’ll just have to agree to disagree on it. But hey! Thanks for projecting your stance on it though! I’ve learned a lot from you.
Not sure I can agree with your definition there. I don’t think being a part of a movement “divides” people. That would depend on the movement itself. Does said movement care about those who don’t share their views? Do they see them equally? Do they respect those individuals regardless of whether they have a “sig” or not? These are questions that I feel are a lot more deeper than just assuming that anyone who is part of something is automatically “discriminating” against anyone who isn’t part of the group. I for example have a signature, yet I am a Mercy main. Does that mean that I am dividing Mercy mains? I don’t believe so. There are still lots of Mercy mains without signatures, and there are still a lot of mercy mains who respect my views on her, and vice versa.
I believe we, as human beings, are smart enough to discern that some text on the bottom of a post doesn’t automatically mean that they are striving to segregate the community. It’s a show of self-expression, and that to me, is no different than having a different profile picture or username than everyone else. How about we judge these movements by their actions first, before assuming that they are all trying to divide people? There are always exceptions.
I disagree. I think Toxicity is actually quite easy to define on these forums.
Being toxic = Going against the Forum’s rules and CoC. And if something does violate those rules, well, that’s what mods are here for right? I don’t see a movement that aims to spread positivity as against the forum rules (especially so since the mods themselves seem to be pretty fine with it from what I’ve seen). But if you do, that’s fine. These are opinions and we can just agree to disagree on that.
To answer your other questions though:
No? People do that even without being a part of a movement, so I’m not sure if being a part of one would make a difference there? I think you are making the assumption that all movements do is derail constructive topics. If you are talking about censoring discussion because it goes against a movement, then I am of course against it. But if those discussions are toxic ones that aim to spread hatred in a non-constructive way (Like the many we see that call out specific mains as cultists for example), then yes, I think it would be beneficial to have people to remind them that it isn’t okay.
I’m pretty sure you are asking a loaded question. Do all movements do that? I don’t think so. That is a question that is once again subjective, and would depend on the movement itself, and the individual. So as said previously, I’m not sure how this applies specifically to movements in general, since that question could be aimed at everyone. Not all movements should be treated as one and the same, and this isn’t a “black and white” case. You’re going to have to ask those movements for yourself and see what their values are. As for me, I’m an advocate for all movements that aim to spread positivity across the forums instead of negativity. Quite simple as that.
See above.
Once again, that is a subjective “if case” question, see above.
Once again, that is a subjective “if case” question, see above.
What “satisfies” you in terms of posts is your own prerogative. No one is entitled to “prove” to you otherwise, nor are they responsible for making you believe a certain way. I’m not sure what to tell you there, other than recommend that you may want to ask various people from those movements for yourself and have an open mind about it, and then make the decision, instead of having preconceived notions about them. I’m not your moral compass on what you think is right or wrong with each movement. You are your own being, so you are entitled to feel whatever you want about them. I’m just giving my thoughts on why I am for the ones that promote positivity. And if you disagree with that, that’s fine. We’ll just agree to disagree.
But… Who said that we “need” movements? There is no “need” to do it. I think people are doing it because it’s a fun way to spread positive vibes in the community and express themselves. I think it adds a bit more to these forums outside of the mundane “Nerf X”, “Dear Y Mains… You are Z” and “I Quit” threads. We already have “Cafe” threads for various mains, people asking the community to say something positive about the devs or staff, etc. I don’t see the problem with a signature that tells people that they are part of a movement. Self expression. Maybe it’s a culture difference at play here in how we view this, but I don’t see it as a bad thing, and a signature doesn’t always need to be about “thirsting for power in the community.”
I think we are already letting the mods do their job, and they are doing great. Reporting posts isn’t a way to boost morale however, is it? And I think there is a way to keep a thread positive without resorting to reporting everyone in it. But if you think a “show of force” is through things like wanting a emote of Mercy licking Ice-Cream or Zen making donuts… I would suggest that you take a little bit of a look back at what a movement actually means.
Oh sorry Jelly. I’m going to have to disagree with you there. I think it, as I’ve said previously, will have to depend on the movement itself. Let’s not judge all movements as one or the other. There are many kinds with different goals, and I think we should shed some light on the ones that have goals to help us as a community and unite us all, and criticize the ones that hurt it and divide us through rumors and hatred.
Let’s keep up the positivity!
~Sincerely Yours xoxo,
a Lover of True, Fair, and Fun Balance. xavvypls
I guess that’s a no then… Oh well. I only asked for evidence of your success and you couldn’t provide it.
How toxic
/s
Here is my point: The title says you say why we need them. I am scrutinizing your reasoning and you are refusing to back it up. That’s your choice and I won’t stop you from it. I just wandering what the point was. If it’s just to make your voice heard then fine, but that’s not really conducive to discussion with people who disagree
Not as much as I would like unfortunately. I like it when people back up their beliefs with facts and evidence.
Here’s a better idea, instead of creating more spam on these already spammed forums to fight toxicity, just be nice yourself. Spamming a whole bunch and disrupting a thread is going to either (A) make a mob ruled system where nothing can get done unless the mob approves or (B) Piss people off more because they were having a discussion when you interrupted it with spam posting.
When it boils down to it forums are made for discussing and arguing. People are inevitably going to get offended or upset but that’s just how it goes in arguments. What really matters is that something gets done, or someone gets taught. Too rarely do I see the words “I guess I was wrong” or “I didn’t think about that”. THAT is where toxicity starts, when both sides of the argument are 100% sure that they are right and they can’t even consider that they are wrong. If you want to make a difference in the forums, fight that, don’t uselessly spam forums with your hero food nonsense.
Can someone explain to me what the Mercy Ice Cream movement is? I seemed to have missed it’s beginnings and it looks like something I’d like to be involved in
I’m about to drive home and will probably be busy for awhile, I’ll try to answer the rest later for you to explain my thinking. I did want to address this really quickly however as it’s straight forward haha.
You did friend xD. Your own title says we need these movements.
I’m not out to get you or anyone else, I promise. I genuinely want to see people able to just chat and enjoy discussions with one another. I’ll hopefully be around later to elaborate later and try to explain the rest of my thinking for you.
