Mercy wasn't actually nerfed

General Discussion
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I appreciate your positive attitude and optimism, and I understand that it must be frustrating and upsetting when a positive message encounters this much resistance.

There’s a reason for that resistance though, even if its tone could stand to be more moderate. Begin with the assumption that Mercy is under powered right now and not balanced (I’ll get back to why this is true in a bit).

These forums serve several purposes. One of these purposes is social - we all play the game and it’s nice to have conversations with other players. In this context, cheering other people up about Mercy’s current state is an anodyne and uncontroversial thing to do.

But there’s another purpose for the forums. People come here to talk about aspects of the game that they find problematic, in hope that the developers will see these discussions and act on them. It’s happened many times before. If there’s a large ground swell of support behind an idea, it often gets addressed in the game. One recent example of this is the change from 60 hps to 50 hps. This purpose of the forums is political - people organize to try to present a message in as audible and as clear a way as they can.

In this second context, presenting the changes in a positive light (especially if you don’t like them and want them fixed) can seem pernicious. It muddies the message, and decreases the chance that the problem will be fixed soon. It’s like crossing a picket line.

So, is Mercy balanced and at the right power level? The two statistics that people use to gauge whether or not a hero is over or under powered are pick rate and win rate.

In every rank plat - gm, Mercy is the lowest win rate healer (in diamond - gm this month she’s the lowest win rate hero period). In diamond-gm she’s far from the rank average (for instance, in GM the average win rate is 54% and Mercy hovers around 50%). That means that in each of those ranks, playing Mercy causes you to lose SR fast. You know this, you’ve felt it yourself. To add insult to injury, in diamond - gm the distance from her to the next healer isn’t even close. They’re all much better than her.

The pick rate situation also isn’t great. Mercy’s pick rates have dived off of a cliff. In diamond-gm she’s the lowest pick rate healer as well. In gm she currently has a pick rate of less than 1%. This should be concerning. It’s almost always the case that pick rate trends start in gm and work their way slowly down all the ranks.

Currently, the stats show that Mercy is a mediocre pick in gold, a bad pick in platinum and diamond, and a throw pick in master and gm. You can still sometimes out heal the other healers, but that doesn’t matter. It’s not a healing competition, and at the end of the day she’s just not a good pick. If you pick her at higher ranks then statistically you’re a liability to your team.

People have been trying to adjust to her new state for almost two months, but they haven’t succeeded. Mercy is not overpowered, but she’s definitely not where she needs to be. A change needs to be made to fix her situation.

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I made a post talking about how mercy actually is balanced. But they kind of forced it into her design. This keeps her from being able to “carry” as much as the other supports. (Shown by her very low on fire rate) it’s just set in stone how much value mercy can get, no potential to get more.

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:heart:

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But some Mercy players do have fun playing her. They are just not vocal about it unlike the people who are unhappy with her. Oh and dare I mention I enjoy Mercy 2.0 way more than 1.0, people throw insults at my head and call me filthy DPS main while I main Mercy on 3 of my 4 accounts…

I think the problem with Blizzard “not listening” to Mercy players is that there is too much “Mercy” spam. Every 5th topic here on the forum is about Mercy. And in almost all of these topics, the people are requesting a revert to mass rez, which is most likely not in Blizzards interest to do, since they would get everyone who’s not a Mercy main against them.
They are being hypocrites by claiming this Mercy is not fun because her rez is against her core identity of being a mobile healer with the cast time. Then request a revert with a cast time and slow on mass rez, which is basically the same thing, against her identity as a mobile healer.
If there is once in a blue moon a really good thread about how to improve current Mercy, make Valkyrie more engaging with more “carry” potential, the mass-rez brigarde is here and takes over and derail the topic into another discussion about mass-rez.

To me, as a frequent reader of the forum, it just feels like a bunch of vocal Mercy mains just want mass-rez back, because they miss how it felt. I can understand that, yet I also understand why this ultimate is gone (because how it felt for non-Mercy players). Same why scatter is gone. It was abused by people to cheese and was played in a playstyle which was not intended, even before the SR exploit was a thing (even back when Mercy gained less SR).

Am I 100% happy with current Mercy? No, I think she could use a small healing buff (55hps) and a small Valk rework (remove chain heals, give strong main beam). I have something for all heroes I like to play I’m not 100% happy about, like Torb needing an Orisa babysitter and only working on a few maps, Ana having 0 sustain outside her nade, Dva having this huge crit box, Tracers ult is nigh unhittable unless on tanks and still standing targets, Meis bugs. Yet I still love to play them because their fun factor overweights the “unfun” things.

I enjoy Valkyrie and I would be sad if they’d revert Mercy. I wouldn’t mind another rework tho.

Incase you’d think I don’t play Mercy…

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Thank you for the well thought out reply, I do appreciate it. I get your point on how a positive message can blur the lines however I feel like in general (maybe not in this thread as much) I still make it clear in a positive way that I think she needs some work. That may be confusing to the message as a whole but that is simply who I am. I know I respond better to feedback when it isn’t rude, over the top and full of insults. So seeing a lot of posts provide feedback in these ways makes me assume that the folks at Blizzard aren’t going to respond them well either. I have no idea what they will respond though, so that’s just an assumption based on my own experiences. I could be wrong.

Mercy does need work. Mainly in the Valkyrie department, in my opinion. I realize that in higher ranks she is a “throw pick” but I don’t play in higher ranks so I can’t speak on that other than looking at stats but stats don’t always tell the whole story. I guess I’d feel better talking a bit about it with someone in masters or GM and see what they have to say about the situation as a whole, not just what the stats indicate.

I have my own thoughts on why winrate is so low but get skewered and called toxic every time I bring it up so I’ll just keep that to myself. All I’ll say is that I don’t think it has to be this way, I think she is capable of more as a character and players are the ones facing issues.

I’m not saying you’re wrong as the stats can’t lie, so I don’t want to give off the impression that I’m some kind of idiot. I know that the things you pointed out are obvious and I know that they do indicate that she is underpowered and/or unbalanced. I just simply think there is more to this game than stats, but I’m probably wrong there. I feel like if she was always this way, if she started out in the beginning as she is right now, things wouldn’t look so bleak.

She definitely needs work, I wont argue that. I’ve seen a lot of ideas around the forums that I like and think would be great for her, but I’ve yet to hear a peep out of Blizzard. I’m trying to adjust the best I can because who knows how long it will be before something is done to her, if anything is ever done to her. I can’t just sit in a pool of negativity or lash out at Blizzard. I can’t just stop playing her, and I wont. I’m realizing that she isn’t awful and she is still very viable in a lot of situations, just not all of them like she used to be.

EDIT: Just saw this thread and the video is pretty spot on, I enjoyed hearing from professionals on this matter in a clear, unbias way.

I really like the point they make about how Mercy may be the weakest healer but she isn’t unplayable and she still has a crazy good ability (rez). Sadly she has a very, very weak ult and it’s harder to get value out of her now which would explain the poor pickrates.

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Except they didn’t listen to just the mercy players who hated the rework. They didn’t listen to the mercy players who liked the rework but had problems with it either. I hate mass res. No, that’s incorrect let’s fix that - I hate res in general. I wanted mass res to be gone, I wanted an E ability, I wanted a rework I was excited. But then when I saw what they have done I was on these forums saying how OP it is combined with valk, while all the mass res lovers were already saying they wanted her reverted before 2.0 release.

And I knew that eventually, this rework, because she so stupidly OP, will lead her to what she is now – unfun garbage. This sentiment was shared by other mercy mains who looked passed the rework and only at balance. Meanwhile all the other players who are not mercy mains were either saying mercy mains need to deal with it or were saying how much more “skillful” she will be and how they will drop in rank (lol). They contributed nothing to balance discussions.

Also at least mass res lovers contributed to the balance discussions, they have explained repeatedly why mass res was not OP, why it worked, why mercy 1.0 worked, what they could have done to make it more fair. They were the people who had ideas for an E.

What did most of the other players do? They complained how mercy mains are wrong, how they are no skill no brain, how they only spam, and continued to insult all mercy mains to this day getting worse and worse. Again, does that contribute to balance discussions? Nope just spread toxicity. And at this point I think that blizzard is on the side of the people who insult mercy mains. Cause they don’t bother doing anything to address the issue, they never incorporated any ideas the mercy mains had and they have completely butchered the hero.

And they have butchered her. I hate mass res like I’ve said. But I love mercy – I loved mercy, 60 hps mercy. Now at 50hps she is complete trash, not just balance wise but gameplay wise. 60hps was the best buff she’s ever gotten not just because it made her more viable but also because it made her more fun, it made her be able to do more things. More dmg boost, more shifts, more beam juggles. In 2.0 it was also more reses and more ults. With 50 hps all of it becomes less, combined with the fact that 50 hps is shte, mercy is garbage in more ways than one. Thus I don’t play her at all anymore. And anyone who thinks that she is more “difficult” now with 50hps are completely wrong, no, she is easier to play, she is harder to get value out of. There’s a difference. She has 49% win rate in GM not because people can’t figure out how to play her, but because she scks. Her skill ceiling has been lowered with 50hps, because all you do is heal. Her “APM” has been lowered, lower apm=lower skill.

Mercy is so bad I have been playing Paladins and enjoying healing there way more. That’s a great achievement considering Paladin’s graphics make my eyes bleed.

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I really do wish that the Mercy discussion wasn’t so acrimonious right now and that it had more room for positive messages and for players cheering up other players. I don’t think you’re being toxic, I think you thought your points out well, and I think that a little positivity is always good. But as I mentioned, in the current climate these kinds of things can be seen as more harmful than helpful. From where I sit, the main fault here lies with Blizzard.

They have the ability (and I think also the responsibility) to moderate this debate and to make it more productive. All they need to do is to communicate more often and more clearly with their player base. I know that they’ve been burned by this in the past, but I don’t think that’s a legitimate excuse for stopping. To me, it feels like an abdication of responsibility. You don’t get to hide from your player base because they’re unhappy with your decisions. You do your best to try to explain the decisions to them, and you do your best to explain to them what kind of feedback is helpful. And if that doesn’t work you try again and again until you figure out how to do it right.

Regarding the statistics - It’s true that sometimes they only tell part of a story. But in this case they’re telling that part in a crystal clear and unambiguous manner that also matches up with the experience of many of players. In addition, if the statistics only tell a partial story - is it not possible that Mercy wasn’t actually OP before this last nerf?

If you’re interested in a positive high rank (often best in NA) Mercy player who has been very clear about his opinions regarding the nerf, I suggest Vale’s stream. He’s always very nice and positive, and he’s fun to watch. EeveeA has also made her opinions known about the nerf. Sirrocknryan (sp?) is active in the Mercy debates in the forums and is a GM Mercy player.

Regarding the video - I’ve watched it. It made me a bit uncomfortable. Stylosa has a known anti Mercy stance, and it sounded very painful for him to say that she needed anything like a buff. Also, a lot of the stuff he said is wrong, especially in high ranks. For instance, that the support meta now is more diverse and in a better spot that it ever was, or that Moira is in a good spot. I made a post about this in case you’re interested.

There have also been some videos about this topc on Your Overwatch and Blame the Controller (the latter tends to be a more respected Overwatch channel than the former two). Personally, I think that any future buff that doesn’t begin with giving her back her 60 hps is doomed to failure. She needs 60 hps to carry out her main role.

Finally - I think there is cause for optimism here. Blizzard will fix Mercy, her current state is not her final state. I think we can make this happen sooner rather than later by being audible, clear, and well reasoned in the public debate.

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I too wish that Blizzard would communicate more clearly about this issue. It’s obviously upsetting to a lot of players and, whether or not Blizz chooses to stick to their guns with these nerfs, they need to tell us about it. Openly and candidly.

I didn’t personally think she was OP before this last nerf myself, however a lot of people claimed she was. I personally think people were using the wrong terminology. She wasn’t over-powered, but she was the most powerful healer. In terms of black and white balance (which I don’t necessarily agree with but am mentioning here for the sake of clarity) the nerf did balance her as she is on more equal footing with the other healers. I don’t think it’s necessarily right, however that seems to be the way Blizzard sees it.

I don’t feel that the 60 to 50 h/ps nerf was the right nerf, and that doing something more to rez (or even removing it entirely if it’s that much of an issue) would have been a better call. As it stands now many still consider rez the most powerful ability in the game, yet it’s attached to a character that people now find boring to play and generally unimpactful.

Funnily enough, the video I linked gave me the right words to what I was trying to say before in regards to stats. Mercy being picked less in higher ranks isn’t because she isn’t viable, I think from what I have seen that it’s more probable that this is occurring due to skill levels. Someone skilled enough to play in masters or GM would probably get more out of playing someone like Ana, especially now that her ult is so impactful. Due to the other healers being buffed, they have just become smarter picks in high ranks. Whereas we see a slightly higher pickrate in lower ranks because the skill isn’t as high. Given that Mercy doesn’t have as much impact due to her weak ultimate and lower healing capabilities she isn’t always a great pick. This just seems so odd to most people because she has been a must pick for a good amount of time.

That’s simply my opinion, one that I think makes it clear that while she does need some work she isn’t entirely worthless. This is the point I’ve been trying to make all along. I don’t think she’s fine in the sense that nothing more needs to be done, I think she’s fine in that she is still playable and people in my rank (including myself) seem to still enjoy her given the right circumstances. So I wont be dramatic and claim that she is broken and needs fixing, I’d rather say she’s ok but needs polishing in some areas.

Again, just my thoughts. I don’t expect everyone to agree but I also don’t think I’m entirely wrong for thinking this way.

I don’t actually know anything about the guy so I went in with no preconceived notions, however I do agree with almost everything he said.

I read your post and while I respect your opinion on the matter as well as your diligence and knowledge, I can’t wholeheartedly agree with everything. I do agree with some bits and pieces but as a whole I think that the healers (aside from Mercy) are in a good spot. Not the best, not better than they have been, but good enough. Maybe I’m just wrong, maybe I don’t know much, maybe it isn’t my place to talk about this at all. Idk.

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I also don’t think she was overpowered before the nerf. Overpicked, certainly. But not overpowered. If she had been then she would have had higher win rates than the other healers back in season 9 before she eclipsed them in pick rates (over powered heroes should win more than their counterparts). This simply was not true.

This one confused me a bit. Equal footing to me means that she’s not more powerful than the other healers, but also not less powerful. What I’m seeing definitely points to her being less powerful, especially at higher ranks. Which brings us back to the viability issue.

To me this is functionally the same as being non viable. Balance and viability are comparative measures. If Mercy was the only healer in the game then she would be fine. But she’s not. If all of her competitors are better and get more value at a certain rank, then she is non viable at that rank.

Mercy players at high ranks really have been trying to get good value out of her. In the streams I’ve watched, they pick her only in maps/comps that should favor her. But it’s just not working.

Thank you very much for taking the time, I appreciate it! I really do think there’s cause for concern regarding some of the other healers beside Mercy.

Mostly, i’m concerned that the current situation will lead to an Ana nerf (which I don’t want). There’s no metric by which you could say that Mercy was overpowered before that doesn’t also say that Ana is overpowered now. It’s a bad position to be in.

I agree with you that Mercy is not entirely worthless. She’s still playable and people still find her fun (I know I do, she’s my favorite character by far. I wouldn’t have played this game nearly as much as I have if it weren’t for Mercy).

But she just can’t compare with her competitors right now, which makes her a bad pick. She’s really hurting in terms of viability, and the problem won’t go away without being fixed. I really hope that Blizzard takes the time to think her through and to fix her properly. I think they’ve been too reactive in the past year, and have let her drift too far from their vision. Personally, I’d like to see them emphasize healing and mobility further and de-emphasize res (perhaps to the point of removing it).

I think that we have a lot of common ground on the Mercy issue, and that the main point where we differ is tone. At the end of the day Blizzard decides these things, not us. But we do have very good reason to believe that they can be influenced and convinced.

I really do feel that the Mercy player community has a role to play here in advocating for change, and it’s up to us to find the tone and content of an argument that would be most convincing to Blizzard.

Based on my personal preference and what I believe worked in the past, I think we need to be clear that something is currently wrong and that a change needs to be made (both in terms of viability and playability).

We should be courteous, well reasoned, and respectful of the concerns that other players have regarding Mercy being dominant again. But we also shouldn’t let the competing narrative be uncontested on theses forums. This competing narrative asserts that there’s no actual problem with Mercy, or if there is then it’s very minor and can be safely ignored or made to disappear with minor milquetoast measures.

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