Just like how not everyone finds mercy fun or needs to
that has nothing to do with our discussion
Our discussion is about how fun is subjective, stating ‘every participants needs to have fun’ is contradicting it.
I play MMORPGS, the one I actively play has a big PVP scene. I do not enjoy PVP so I simply avoid and play the part of the game I find fun.
If Mercy isn’t fun, simply play another hero.
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So would the author be opposed to a mercy change to try and make her more fun/impactful for the majority of the players?
Mercy can do only 1 thing at a time and she is outshined in every single aspect of her kit aside from healing through barriers. Which btw doesn’t really matter because even a Winston can kill through mercy healing.
But what happens if they change the part of the game that was fun for you ? Are you not allowed to share your opinion if it is no longer fun for you ?
So the only choice for you is to stop playing the game instate of giving feedback what you don’t like.
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it’s not necessarily contradictory because there are different heroes, there are different ways to approach situations, there are different strategies
not everyone has to find every single hero fun not everyone has to find every single strategy fun
a game has to be fun for all participants doesn’t mean that everyone has to enjoy every single part of the game it means that they have to enjoy at least certain parts of it
yeah you’re right… that’s kinda exactly what i just said
a while back i used to play warframe and hoo-boy the open world content in that game is not very good so i just ignored it and paid to skip it
yeah i’ve talked about this before lemme dig it up for you!
My enjoyment is PvE
The core aspect of the game wont change
Thats like implying Blizzard removes quick play and comp and replaces both with Mystery HeroeS; changing the core formula.
I complained when QP got hero limits, but alas, I still enjoy the core gameplay and play it.
I avoid arcade, which I dont find fun, but you don’t see me in the forums all day going ‘delete arcade!’
i respect that others have fun where I do not.
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so we agree?
duh!
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Well then lets stop arguing ^v^
I must’ve misunderstood you haha
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but do read the rest of my post!
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I did and I’ll read what you linked ;v; that one part of it just bothered me hgfdrew
but sadly it’s true mercy’s play style is just drastically different compared to other heroes
also i see the forums as a place to have a friendly game of arguing and one thing that I’ve learned is that sometimes you have to accept that you’re wrong about what you’ve stated it’s like when 3 people on your team are dead you don’t push you’ll lose harder so im not afraid of being wrong do your worst!
If that was the case then Genji would get nerfed every patch.
Take off the blindfolds.
Because you’re talking in a fancy way, with a syntaxe that nobody would normally use in a casual conversation - and I’m not saying you should not speak that way just that you chose to talk in a more “formal” way if we use the linguistic terms - it means that you are fully aware that words mean more that just what is written.
Especially in your posts, there are a lot of things that are written between the lines and which are really easy to figure out.
For example, quoting someone and then saying that if someone says X is Y, you’ll say X is X just means that you are right and they are wrong. You are not saying explicitly but it is there nevertheless. And if you talked with a more casual register it would maybe not be on purpose but BECAUSE you don’t talk casually, it just emphasizes that double meaning.
If it was not your intention then it just means that you are trying to hard to give yourself an image of someone fancy when really you don’t understand how language works, and I hope you don’t.
That being said, you did, in you posts, implicitly said that they were wrong and you were right. Just own it.
Yeah, it’s a guess. It is not a fact. We do not know for sure.
It would be like if I were to bring you a tool that you have never seen before that looks both like a hammer and screwdriver. You would say it’s a hammer and the other person would say it’s a screwdriver. Who is right ? Neither of you know, it’s just two assumptions.
No facts whatsoever.
As I explained just before, because you use that fancy way of talking it just emphasizes everything that is implicit and therefore many of your posts are disrespectful because you just shutdown everyone by saying “I’m right and you’re wrong” with the use of random analogies.
First of all, you have provided absolutely NO facts in this discussion. Everything was your own opinion. And once again, you shutdown everyone trying to give their opinion by saying that you’re right and they’re wrong. That is not opening up to a debate, that is saying “I am right, you can talk as much as you want but what I’m saying is the truth anyway” when there is no truth.
Summary of all this : Be careful when you talk, if you use a fancy way of talking - which is fine - you cannot deny the implicit meaning of your posts, especially when it’s done very poorly and with no subtility whatsoever.
This is the official dev comment on her rework that you can find in the patch note from september 19th, 2017 :
" Developer Comment: *While resurrecting downed allies is a core part of Mercy’s gameplay, the way her Ultimate functioned was causing a number of problems. It was frustrating to play against, and it incentivized Mercy players to hide away from important battles, instead of taking part in them. This version turns Resurrect into a single target ability. It’s still an important part of Mercy’s kit, but plays much better for both Mercy players and her enemies. Valkyrie, her new Ultimate, gives her the opportunity for big game-making plays and opens a number of new options for her."
I would like to highlight a few things : “It was frustrating to play against” --> Not fun
“Plays much better for both Mercy players and her ennemis” --> The rework was supposed to be more fun for both Mercy players and the ennemy team.
Sooo if you like facts that much, here you go. They did not change it because of some balancing issues or whatsoever, they changed it because it was frustrating to play against. Devs words, not mine.
You can also watch the dev update from August 24th, 2017, at 2.02 Jeff says “It’s pretty disheartning” --> that is a “fun” related issue.
So even if it was not the ONLY reason, it was one of the MAIN reason since it was brought up in everything that they said for that rework. And that is a fact.
And once again I will argue that I have never stated that she is not doing anything or that she is not doing what’s best for her team.
Your opinion on the subject is very narrow.
I will just stop that argumentation here because obviously you are not willing to actually talk about it and you are just stating your opinion with a closed mind. That being said I totally agree that if you make the choice to rez a teammate, you are probably doing what is best for your team atm and you are being the most useful as well. It still means that you are not actively taking part in the fight happening (if a fight is happening of course).
And that is the worst idea ever for Mercy.
Having a cleanse ability will only be usefull for Ana’s nade/sleep, Rein shatter or Zarya’s grav.
Even if you were to put it as a team cleanse, it would make Mercy just way too situational.
You’d just have to pick heroes who are not heavily reliant on CC and Mercy would just be completely useless.
There is not much to cleanse in Ow. Not nearly enough to make an ability that only cleanses anyway. Also, even if you just add that to the current rez, it wouldn’t fix any issues that she has and it wouldn’t be usefull because you wouldn’t want to cleanse a single ally from an Ana’s nade and lose your rez.
Actually I’m pretty sure they were making fun of the way you used earth-flatter to argue in this discussion.
Also you should stop with the double/triple post.
Just saying.
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Depends on what part of the community we’re talking about. I believe Overwatch caters to the DPS community. That makes a lot of sense given the overall nerfs/buffs during this game’s lifespan.
I have one pair of eyes so one blindfold is enough. I think you’re wearing both…
I respectfully disagree
The words I use in statements I make have specific meanings taken individually and in the context of the statement as a whole. There are no hidden meanings, with the occasional exception where forum rules override free expression, such as naming an individual
All readers are of course free to interpret meaning from any given statement, even when said meaning wasnt something the writer intended. I personally see a lot of readers attempting to see certain meaning in my statements that simply isn’t there. One reader even chose to interpret a statement where I indicated that was was not a flat-earther as me saying that I was/am a flat-earther. It is unfortunate in my eyes that misinterpretations like this are common
If I say x is x, this is me stating my position, and is not me saying anyone else is wrong.
I do see people misinterpreting it as me saying someone is wrong, but nowhere in such a statement am i saying anyone is wrong
To me, the statement above is an example of the misinterpretation of my statements
I find it necessary to make precise, careful statements here at times.
If you read all of my posts, you will find that I do not always do so
I am fully versed in how the english language works, and I do not consider my statements to be “fancy” nor projectign an image of me beign “fancy” in any way, shape, or form
I have not done so, and as such, there is nothing to “own” here, assuming by “own” you mean “accept responsibility for”
Or perhaps more like someone hitting nails with a screwdriver and ergo claiming it is a hammer, and I’d reply that it is a screwdriver being mis-used as if it were a hammer when in fact it isnt
In my opinion, my statements are not disrespectful and do not inform others that they are wrong, even if my statements include terminology that indicates that I disagree.
The statement above replies to a statement that indicates I use facts in some statements as I deem necessary. The statement does not confine itself to statements made in this specific thread, but rather my statements in general
Any poster on this or any thread in these forums is permitted to state their opinions, regardless of whether said opinion(s) agree or disagree with that of others
I have done so, and find nothing wrong with that
I have already addressed the topic of telling others they are wrong in earlier statements in this post, but in sum - I havent done so
Nor have I “shut down” anyone. I am not even certain what shut down means in the context of these forums, as I have no police powers whatsoever.
What I cannot deny is that certain folks seem to misinterpret my statements in a negative fashion on a regular basis. This suggests the possibility of some sort of hidden intent on the part of those doing so, but I have no way to make certain of that or even investigate. In any case, I have no control over how folks react to my statements.
I have other evidence indicatign the real reason was behavior of Mercy players that the devs deemed as unwanted in their game, behavior driven by the existence of the mass rez power. As such, Mass rez was (thankfully) removed from the game, hopefully never to return
I recalls something on the order of (gist, not a quote) that she is removing herself from the fight when she rezzes. In my opinion, this is a battle tactic - bring back a teammate to help win the fight
Thank you for acknowledging this
I respectfully disagree
I personally think it is a great idea, as do many others I have spoken to. It is a function currently missing from the game, and a lot of folks (myself included) think there is waaaaaaaay too much cc in the game already
Worst idea for Mercy in my opinion is mass rez
Factually, cleanse could be written up to affect a number of other cc effects
Given the large number of opponents with who can attack with cc effects, I think this power would be applicable in most matches
Players will often pick the hero they wish to play, including but not limited to any of the heros who have cc abilites, regardless of the picks of the other team.
Further, in the proposal being referenced here, the cleansing ability is only an option, not a “all you can do is cleanse” ability
In the view of myself and many others, there is far too much CC in the game at present.
As such, there is a great deal of cc to be (potentially) cleansed
In the proposal in question, I would provide specifics on what issues are addressed by the change.
I know of at least 1 issue that would be addressed
Not everyone prefers rez over other abilities…this is a judgement call to be made by the individual player
Additionally, there are many players who dont want any form of rez to even be in the game. For these players, anything at all would be preferable to using rez
I have no idea what it is that you are defining as a double/triple post
Seriously. In your reply you used yet another false equivalency that represents you as being correct, right after trying to explain you’re not doing that. In this instance, there are NO people using screwdrivers to hit nails. That IS implying the person is incorrect and you inevitably are correct. This is a tactic you hide behind in almost every argument. It just doesn’t work man. Please try a better arguing tactic. You’re only being disrespectful by using these very false equivalencies.
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I don’t play Mercy so I don’t have any valid opinions on her balance, but this was quite an interesting debate.
You both are right in some ways, but I agree more so with Megadodo and I’ll explain why.
Crowd control is a broad term to be sure, but I’m sure most of us can agree on this definition: “Crowd control generally refers to a lot of different skills, but they all have one thing in common: they let you, in some way, control the actions or movement of a hostile target.” - Engadget
IsTheMedia is saying that Mercy’s rez is a form of CC, because it slows her movement. Indeed, it could be viewed as a self-CC; I have no problems agreeing with him here. What I get hung up on is the actual term “self CC”. Let me explain.
I hail from World of Warcraft as a Mage main. The two skills I want to talk about are Polymorph and Ice Block.
For those of you not too familiar with WoW, Polymorph turns an enemy into a sheep, in which they are effectively out of the battle until the spell runs out or they are damaged. It’s our cc ability, and when someone says, “Sheep that mob” they mean to crowd control it with Polymorph.
Ice Block, to quote the tooltip, “Encases you in a block of ice, protecting you from all attacks and damage for 10 sec, but during that time you cannot attack, move, or cast spells.”. You mostly use it to buy time (such as waiting for some of your cool downs, purging debuffs, waiting out buffs used by the enemy in PvP settings etc…). Ice Block would fall under the “self CC” terminology in this case.
That being said, I’ll go back to the definition I provided earlier. Crowd Control is mostly referring to any skill that allows you to control the actions of an enemy or hostile unit. No where in WoW is Ice Block considered crowd control, because you are not inhibiting the actions of an enemy unit.
If self CC were a thing, then would Rein slowing down while holding his shield also be CC? How about D.va when she shoots? Their movement speed is changed, so it would be “self CC”, would it not? I think you see the problem here.
I’m being long winded at this point so I’ll conclude with this: I agree with both of you to an extent, but in terms of the actual definition and use of CC, Megadodo is more correct. The movement speed reduction of rez is a part of the ability in order to balance it. Mercy is not being crowd controlled in any traditional sense when she uses the ability; the reduced speed is simply apart of it.
3 Likes
Factually, I am not hiding from anyone here. If I were to wish to hide, I would simply not reply at all
Factually, none of my statements include (or are) false equivalencies
Factually, I have not stated that anyone is incorrect. I simply state my own opinions, providing facts as well when these are related to the point I am attempting to make
I do not believe I have been disrespectful to any individual I have replied to. That said, the individual decides if they have been disrespected, and ergo I have no control of whether a statement reasonably deemed as non-disrespectful statement will or will not be claimed to be disrespectful by another individual reading said statement. All I can do is state - and I do here and now - that there is no intent on my part to be disrespectful in any statement I have made in this discussion