I’m glad someone brought up the 2CP angle, as it’s to me the most egregious way that Mass Rez broke the game. Killing Mercy first, then using ults, only to have the Mercy walk two steps out of spawn and rez her team in virtually complete safety was the jankiest part of those maps and it was a significant part of why I personally dreaded having to attack B on almost all of them.
In order to make it a mechanic that approaches fair on those maps, you would either have to decouple the “rezzable ally” timer from the respawn timer, which would make the ability almost useless on any situation that isn’t point B 2CP defense; or redesign all 2CP maps to move the spawns further away from the point (as well as maps like Dorado and Gibraltar), which the devs are probably not going to do to accommodate an ability that they’ve already demonstrated that they don’t want in the game. This is, of course, on top of the other changes that people commonly suggest (LoS and a cast time).
Given that Mercy was considered useless and rez a suicide ult when it was instant and could be done from within spawn without LoS, I don’t see why anyone would want this in the game at all.
Given that Mercy was considered useless and rez a suicide ult when it was instant and could be done from within spawn without LoS, I don’t see why anyone would want this in the game at all.
Before the invulnerability buff, Mindfuzz (who I miss greatly) made an excellent video on why Mercy was a weak healer for this very reason. It was suicide to use Rez in the most effective way on these maps in particular as you would be down your main healer and back to a 5v6. This was the main reason that the invulnerability was added but proved to make these issue very severe.
that’s what i’ve been asking since day1 of people wanting mass rez back.
Like, she was trash with invincibility and no line of sight and only had some playtime between ana’s death and the start of early dive (when it had lucio/zen). Then the rework happened.
And you explained better than anyone how rez was unhealthy. Because they had to design the entire game around it, for a low tier hero on an ability they didn’t like.
Let’s see how the revert mercy gang will twist your words. Most likely it’ll be something like “that’s your opinion but i disagree” insert joseph joestar
I don’t want to play a hero for their pocket healing potential. I feel like that’s a weak argument when talking about if her rework was a success. I still play Mercy from time to time and can still heal decently enough but the amount of times I feel helpless or like I’m not doing anything impactful has greatly increased. I liked the rework when it first came out because it fit more with my playstyle, I was used to team fight healing and tempo rez (I was never one of those fabled ‘hide and rez’ players) and I think that if they slowed her movement during Valk and a few other things she would have been fine even with the E-rez but she’s so slow and clunky now that I only feel good playing her on capture point type maps
Your team gets outplayed and wiped by a team with better positioning - but wait! Your Mercy was hiding around the corner and pressed Q! Now we get to do the battle all over again except without our ults because your Mercy didn’t help your team win it the first time! What fun this game is!
Mass rez was awful and should never have been in the game in the first place.
Both in response to videos and threads that have been raising such issues. I’d also show you the threads that called out the devs, specific people, and / or other groups of people, but those particular threads usually get or have been deleted, so I am unable to source them for you here, my apologies.
Well in terms of etiquite. Your first post was framed as “calling me out” (according to your words), and you have expressed from the start that you don’t see mass res as a solution for any future for Mercy.
So starting a discussion in that way, I would hope you would see as how one would respond to you with the assumption that you aren’t willing to be open about a difference in opinion. Therefore, instead of trying to argue with you, I have merely decided to respect your thoughts and agreed to disagree. I don’t see a problem with that, and it’s no disrespect to you, but with how some people (some who have posted in this very thread as you have seen) insist on mocking me for my opposing views, instead of being open to my thoughts even though I disagree with them (I have had everything from snide remarks on my username and sig, to outright death threats and being called a cultist, simply for wanting mass ress back - to give you an idea), I think it’s a lot more civil to just let our opinions be and agree on that, rather than us both getting into a heated debate, getting angry, and then throwing insults where nothing is resolved. Especially so when it’s followed by other posts (from people before and after you) where the intent wasn’t to see the opposing view, but just to come in, say “mass res isn’t coming back” and focus on personal attacks rather than being constructive within this discussion.
Nothing can be learned when people act in that way, so instead of continuing with the back and forth, I cut to the chase on those types of discussions and end it there, before it gets any more toxic. It’s in no offense to you by the way, I do this with everyone who I feel isn’t willing to be constructive, so allow me to apologize for misreading your intent, I’m kind of used to people being inflammatory towards me, simply for holding onto an unpopular opinion.
But if you are open to my thoughts about why I think that 2CP will work, I’m more than happy to have a civil discussion. I’ve already given my views on how Area denial ults will be the checks and balances of that ability in my other thread I’ve linked, and that, along with things like CC, and the other suggestions I’ve given to check her abilities, I believe that the issues with Mercy in CP maps isn’t as bad as people seem to make it out to be. Afterall, we wouldn’t know about it, unless we try it in practice you know?
I believe you are talking about how Mercy can have an ultimate, gets killed, and is then still able to use that ult later, correct? If so, then I can see how that is a problem. The solution is simple. Mercy would simply need to have it so her res is cancelled if she is killed before the res completes. There’s various other ultimates that function in this way, I wouldn’t see that as a problem, and actually would prefer it, over Mercy keeping it even after an unsuccessful res.
I see where your concern is there. My view on it however is different I suppose. I personally don’t see why Mercy not being as strong in control maps as a problem…? Mercy shouldn’t be strong in every situation right? And I don’t think she should be viable in every situation. That’s kind of the problem I think we had with the introduction in the rework, and Valkyrie. She’s essentially become basically good at every map, in every game mode, and in every comp. Her being weak in 2CP due to counters is what will also give more reasons to switch to someone more favorable - something I believe pro players would want anyway. Also once again, I believe we would need to keep in mind the other parts of the kit I’ve suggested, damage reduction. While she doesn’t have invincibility, she would still be a bit tankier on her res than her normal state. This, in addition to LOS and a 1.25s cast time, should compensate for the focus fire a bit, and be more reliable than res without invincibility, without making it completely unblockable or instant.
That’s fine, I believe I’ve already touched these points. The issue with Mercy is not that she had mass res, the issue is that her ability wasn’t “expired” when she missed the opportunity, allowing her to use it again even after she was killed before hand. Making her ult cancel when she’s killed before the 1.25s cast time will most certainly fix that issue, and allow for counterplay. But that’s my take on it.
I believe I have made some points here already, but do feel free to elaborate on anything I may have missed. I am aware of the opinions of the prominent “Mercy critics”, and recently I have seen that quite a few of them at least agree that this current iteration of Mercy needs some form of compensation in order to make her engaging, rewarding, and impactful to play again. For me, I believe that solution is a Revert + Tweaks, and I have yet to see any alternative that has proven to be as impactful or engaging, unless it was something surrounding her healing or putting her res on a resource meter (ideas that I am open to as well). Overall, my issue is still fixed on Valkyrie being the issue, and Rez on a cooldown instead of an ultimate. I believe the two abilities should be swapped, and then tweaked from there. I agree with you in that I too found the decision making etc. fun. However, while I understand why people are opposed to mass res as a concept, I am still open to the idea of it coming back with tweaks, since that was never tried before the rework, nor was mass res given the attention that this rework was given to get her to a balancable state, and I don’t think that the subjective argument of “It’s unfun to play against” is a strong enough reason to remove an ultimate, no matter who the hero is.
So overall, I’m not convinced, and I am still going to fight for mass res. I would only imagine how much further they would have gone, had they stuck to their guns and continued working on Mercy’s old ult, before giving up and completely changing it to something that has become hugely controversial even today. And I’m ready for all the backlash that ensues from the opposing side. As I’ve said, I’ve grown used to it at this point, and I’m still firm in what I believe to be what’s not only best for the hero, but also for the game as a whole. But of course, these are just my thoughts, and I don’t expect you to be convinced either, so feel free to disagree with them as well.
~Sincerely Yours xoxo,
a Lover of True, Fair, and Fun Balance. xavvypls
I’m not saying bring back Mass Rez, we all know the racist children in OWL, the streamers, the youtubers, and top tier players, are all the main ones listened to when it comes to heroes, not the overwhelming majority of players.
And ANY mention of Mass Rez coming bring would start a crying-fit by those previously mentioned, so it’s not happening.
However, making her Mass Rez LOS and/or adding in the casting vs. it being instant, could have EASILY balanced mass rez. So could have limiting the number of ppl she could mass rez from ANYONE without range, to maybe only 2 or 3.
Point is, Mass Rez could have been worked with and a less impactful Valk made her E or something.
But hey, not happening so this whole conversation is honestly kinda pointless.
Yes yes, tell me more about how a bingo game is disrespectful/offensive and how im putting myself in ridiculous.
Hint: the moment you focus on semantics and less in context/ answering complaints the less your opinionated feedback is taken seriously, hence why if we are going to play the " I need to have everything Blizzard says spelled at or otherwise im gonna play dumb and start twisting it and taking it out of context" game some Mercy mains like play, let me have my bingo game too.
I find it interesting how you proved an excellent point to their statement, and instead of refuting it (which I would guess they were not able to do) was followed by them ignoring it and continuing on bashing Mercy mains and derailing the thread. I think that really shows a lot about their character, though… from looking at their posts and various topics vs responses, I am going to guess that they are posting memes on Mercy threads in this way, as it’s the seemingly only way they are able to garner any noticeable amount of attention and / or likes. Oh well, it’s probably best to just ignore the troll. But hey! At least this thread made it to their top replies list, and I’m sure it made them feel very important!
Oh so essentially a preemptive res. Could certainly be an interesting thought! It kind of reminds me of my Halo ability in the way it prevents death, but only if you place a buff on them first.
Either way I like the concepts, I would totally love to see how our ideas would play out in game.
~Sincerely Yours xoxo,
a Lover of True, Fair, and Fun Balance. xavvypls
What if I never “Hid and Rezz”? What if I flew past the front lines to heal and save the charging Rein or Genji? What if on several occasions I hardly needed to use team Rezz throughout the entire match because I was so dedicated to keeping everyone alive? What if I realized that team rezz doesn’t always work due to enemy ults still on standby while tempo rezz has better survivability and is more strategic?
What if my whole team died on the objective, but I continued forward pistol in hand and pull off a successful mass rezz cause the enemy decides to use all there ults at once while I remain safely in the back lines?
When I bought the game I thought that I would be a Genji, Tracer, Reinhardt, or Soldier 76 main when in truth became a support main. Because having other hero’s depend solely on your healing was new to me, and I loved it. Then the rework happened. I knew deep down that the rework would be too OP, and would be hit later with the nerf hammer. Instead, I had to relearn to play my main healer week after week after week until eventually she became unplayable.
At this point I really don’t care anymore. No longer care what poor excuse Geoff has to say about anything. It’s funny cause in a way they won. I hardly play Mercy anymore, but don’t really play support at all. They’ve become more powerful yes and more engaging, but they really don’t fit my play-style. Instead, I’ve become a full sneaky DPS Sombra that disrupts tanks and potential harassers that go after the support line.
You always bring up deathmatch, but it’s a completely different situation. For one, it was never removed from the game in the first place. Secondly, the devs didn’t call it unhealthy for the game on stream, nor have to keep saying that it isn’t coming back
I will say it again, they have no plans to change Mercy ATM. If mass rez were coming back, what better time to say than Blizzcon.
And no, two balance changes and a voice line aren’t an indication. Your name wasn’t created with the idea of getting a healing nerf, was it?
oh boy trying to say anything to them. They’ll just “disagree”, then repeat those same three point as proof yet again.
Considering they are at the point where dev said “we didn’t like mass rez” and “no rework planned” and they still try and twist the word because “he didn’t EXACTLY say that they aren’t gonna revert her”.
At this point i’m just here for the memes and the bingo
The irony, she was reworked for a good part because she was unfun to play against with mass resurrect and the myth that hide and res was common. Now, moving to the present, there’s a fair amount of hate towards Mercy and Mercy discussion, she’s being balanced solely on statistics (unlike the rework which balanced somewhat based on ‘unfun to play against’ and the common myth but actually made matters far worse for a while). It doesn’t matter if players find her current state fun or not, only the stats matter apparently . It’s clear why they never bothered engaging in or reading much (if any) of the feedback when megathreads were a thing.
Right? I find it funny how when she had mass res, the “unfun” argument was seen as the gospel, but now? “No that’s subjective, Mercy is balanced you just want her OP again, it’s not coming back, a pro gamer says so!”
When the facts remain:
Mercy was statistically balanced back in 1.0 before being given invincibility, and was infact, undertuned.
Mercy was given a rework based on myths of “Hide and seek Mercies” which has never been proven to be happening at any huge scale or in such a way that she was “breaking the game”
Ironically, the rework made her exponentially more OP, a must pick, and unfun to play against, and now people were whining for nerfs.
After all the sledgehammer nerfs and Mercy became in a balanced state, yet unfun to play, now people are saying “she’s fine lelelel” without an understanding of how she was “fine” and balanced back in 1.0.
It’s apparent to me that a lot of people who holds the idea of mass res not coming back have a lot in common in their views. They either 1. Never played her before the invincibility buff, 2. Didn’t play Mercy before the invincibility buffs, or 3. Relies on subjective opinion above facts, using the “unfun to play against” argument only where it suits them. Or any variation of these three.
I’ve also noticed that there’s a strong crowd mentality there too when trying to express how mass res is “unhealthy”. As in, people just having such views because it’s popular, or because it was said via PR speech or by someone with influence, when usually such statements have been subjective and false dilemma claims, not based on any sort of stats, data, or facts. This behavior can of course be seen in other communities as well where someone has a lot of influence is seen as more “credible” than others, when the reality is that everyone’s opinions are equal. In fact, I’ve seen some in this forum try to argue that “a dev / pro streamer’s opinion holds more weight than your own,” simply because there was a disagreement in views, when rank and “superiority” weren’t the point of the discussion and the argument given couldn’t be proven with stats or data.
Further, while I do see a lot more people realizing that all of this is their opinion, and respect the views of others (which is great!), it is clear that others still can’t seem to get past that “my opinion is fact” stage, and become hostile with their fellow forumers rather than just agreeing to disagree with a difference in views. I’ve been quietly keeping track of these particular individuals (some of which have shown their true colors in this very thread) for months now, and I find it interesting that the arguments they consistently try to rebuttal against the “fun is subjective, Mercy was statistically balanced back in 1.0” are usually very weak ones. Being more based on their own experiences with the game or rumors based on the subjective opinions of who they perceive to be a higher authority (like a twitch streamer or pro gamer) or twisting the words of a Dev to fit their agenda. Of course if you notice in my past posts, questioning them on any of these observations, also turns them hostile as well, where they resort to personal attacks and wide sweeping generalizations of a playerbase.
I’m really learning a lot about those types of folks, and it’s become extremely helpful seeing the same group harass others who disagree with them. It’s helped me to know when to diffuse and who would actually be willing to have a meaningful discussion on the state of Mercy.
What Interesting ways our minds work.
“This was a huge success ™ ®”
~Sincerely Yours xoxo,
a Lover of True, Fair, and Fun Balance. xavvypls
Isn’t it hypocritical to complain about spam when always posting the same picture, complaining about the spam? Ad hominem aside, it really does devalue your message.
𝓣𝓱𝓮 𝓜𝓮𝓻𝓬𝔂 𝓘𝓬𝓮 𝓒𝓻𝓮𝓪𝓶 𝓜𝓸𝓿𝓮𝓶𝓮𝓷𝓽
Spreading positivity and ice cream, one Mercy at a time.
. It’s clear why they never bothered engaging in or reading much (if any) of the feedback when megathreads were a thing.
is absolute disgusting at this 
point.
