I want to protect Ana from the hate brigade

[SwankyOrc-2304332]

@NerfThis-11137

All she needs is to have a tank specific change to antinade were it reduces heals for tanks alone 50% or something.

Tanks are the ones that need the full antiheal the most though? You dont need to antiheal dps because they dont have stupid dmg reduction and immortality abilities to the point that anti is required to kill them, unlike tanks

People need to stop babying tank players. They are the most broken role in the game by far. They have access to characters that both nullify/ignore antinade like dva, zarya, ball, orisa etc, but they still will hard lock hog/mauga/queen and cry.

Fact is they just want an easy life and roll over the enemy team solo. If anti nade didnt exist tanks like hog and mauga would be the unkillable and thats exactly what they want.

Tanks just want to be unkillable machines that can solo an entire enemy team by themself. They want the highest dmg, the most kills, the least deaths and to be able to do everything with 0 counters.

Tanks should be the frontline of the team. They should be the damage absorbers and space makers. If we continue making tanks that are outdmging dps and have no ways to absorb damage for the team, we are not making tank characters. We are making dps with triple health.

Queen, mauga, ball, hog, doom.

Funny how no one likes playing against or with any of these characters. Only the players playing them enjoy it. Really says something about the design. People preach that rein is the best designed tank yet none of the recent tanks are designed in the same universe as him. Maybe stop making tanks that are just dps and make tanks that actually tank…. Y’know like rein

[Jack0fAsses-1131]

@Seiba-11783

These are my thoughts as well regarding Ana, people act like they don’t even have a defensive cool down to protect themselves when Anti’d or are too afraid to ask if any of their supports can go Kiriko.

Before Kiriko there was Baptiste. Zarya shield also cleanses anti. There are more than enough counters to Ana. Also Ana v Ana you can ‘nade the anti and if they don’t burn your tank you can heal them back up pretty quick in a punch once the anti wears off.

Anti is mainly for countering Mercy pockets, hog, junker and a few others. Shes definitely one of my top picks unless I’m being harassed by dives in which case it’s usually kiri/moira. Ana is far from invincible and still remains largely a single target healer.

Love me a good anti-nade that hits the whole team though.

Too much salt in these forums.

[NerfThis-11137]

@SwankyOrc-2304332

immortality abilities

It’s a chicken egg situation suzu points at nade nade at IMF suzu.

Though if we nerf antinade for tanks then suzu IMF can be looked at and nerfed easily without excuse.

[SwankyOrc-2304332]

Im not talking immo like suzu

im talking DM, TaB, kinetic grasp, javelin spin, ram block, fortify, mauga’s new dmg reduction + heal ability ….

Nerf all these and then you can nerf anti. Until all these are nerfed anti is needed to actually kill anything.

You get a tank low and they press 1 button and immediately just start ignoring 80% of damage for ‘reasons’ gain 4000hp, cant be targeted are immune to all cc etc. without anti you cant kill anything

Tanks have too much self sustain and it forces counterswapping to actually kill them

They have dva you NEED beams. Without beams you will never kill her. She will always fly away and dm all your damage.

They have hog you NEED anti. Witjout anti he just heals 500hp gets insane dmg reduction and does what he wants

Tanks need less self sustain and more team protection abilities. Supports should be the role that is about sustaining the team. The moment we started making/buffing tanks with insane self sustain is when the problem got out of control. Coincidence?

If they designed tanks in a way which meant you could actually play other characters that arent hard counters youd see less people hard counter. People only hard counter because its becoming more and more required with how they are designing tanks

Before hog got buffed you could play multiple supports against him. Since the buffs you HAVE to pick ana because otherwise he never dies. A perfect example of how insane sustain enforces counterswapping. Before he got his sustain buffed i could play most supports. They buffed him, now i HAVE to play ana. They way they are buffing tanks is forcing counters even harder

They keep buffing dva every patch and it just forces zarya even more everytime. If you dont play zarya vs her its gg you cant win. They keep buffing tanks in a way which makes them insanely broken unless you counterpick them which just FORCES YOU TO COUNTERPICK MORE

They need to buff tanks vs their counters but nerf them everywhere else

For instance:
Dva matrix can now absorb beam damage
But
Matrix now only lasts 2 seconds

This makes her match up with zarya less 1 sided but if you dont run zarya you can actually play yhe game without all your bullets being eaten 24/7 which is what happens if you play any hitscan vs a dva. Her matrix literally is smothering to play against and it literally forces you to go heroes like echo, brig etc so you can actually play the game without her deleting everything you do

[DemonicAngel-21186]

Hyperbolic??

Ana’s power over the other Supports is insane. Anything they can do, she can do better, while being far from the fight.

The only thing she can’t do is move particularly quickly, but that’s hardly an issue when at least 2 of your team is guaranteed to be babysitting her at any given time, preventing anyone from being able to kill her, while she can single handedly keep both her protectors alive.

So no, screw ‘protect Ana’. She needs to be nerfed. And it’s as simple as halving the effect of Bionade’s anti heal. You wanna talk about Mercy having an Ult on a cooldown? Please, Ana’s had that before Mercy ever did, and with Dez being the only other hero with anti heal, with it also being 100% while exclusive to Rampage, what’s justifying Ana’s little tactical nuke nowadays, huh?

[GreyFalcon-11737]

@anon58197767

Ana is the necessary evil that needs to be in place to balance the game.

Literally the opposite of that.

TBH, most of all the 5v5’s current overall problems boils down to the game trying to bend itself around the devs not fundamentally changing AntiNade, Widow or Hanzo.

If they those weren’t almost “Needed” to make stuff die fast enough, then they could easier lower defenses (i.e. Less healing, Reworking Immortalities).

It would also make it so that heroes like Mauga, Junker Queen or Roadhog are a heck of a lot easier to balance for all ELOs, rather than having to figure out his power level, with and without a Kiriko pocket.

---

I’d argue that the main things that are limiting the game are AntiNade, Widow and Hanzo.

• They basically offer a gigantic amount of zoning just for existing.
• And also nullify the positioning value from Tanks that aren’t barrier tanks.
• And nullify the healing value from Supports.
• And often narrow down what can be used to get kills.
  • Because of all the escalated defenses that can deal with that burst damage.

So in a game that’s could be simplified down to:

• 1. Move to a Positioning location
• 2. Stand at a Positioning location
• 3. Prevent Kills
• 4. Get Kills

Those three heroes are narrowing down ALL of those choices, a lot.

• Limiting Tank choices
• Limiting Support choices
• Limiting DPS choices
• Limiting Positioning choices

They are a textbook definition of a severe “Balance” problem.

Literally,

What is Play Balance?

Sid Meier once said, “A game is a collection of interesting choices”. It follows that game elements being out of balance and thereby eliminating choices detracts from the gameplay. Ideally, a game should be a series of choices, ending with victory of defeat or some other end condition. Sometimes, some choices will become unquestionably the only choice, or definitely not a valid choice. If there is only one valid choice at some point, but the game hasn’t ended, there is a play balance problem. Nearly all situations commonly referred to as imbalances can be boiled down to a choice reduction.
https://archive.gamedev.net/archive/reference/articles/article1765.html

[Alex-115536]

@NerfThis-11137

But I’m tired of the hyperbolic claims going against ana.

This!

Like its fine to dislike a hero, but what some people are saying is just insane.

Theres people going around saying stuff like “mercy alone can out heal dragon blade”

[Hyphen-21921]

I would say 80% of the Ana hate is Anti-Heal Hate really. Nobody cares about the healing boost to allies, or the CD or the bonus damage it does.

"We cant change Bio-Nades % because of UI confusion"

Its almost as if 100% Anti heal should not exist … and it should be something like a “poisoned” effect, where you lose 20% of your HP on top and that can’t be healed for the duration: Ana’s duration would be 3 sec JQ duration would be 6 sec Done. Balanced. You can even lower Ana’s CD back to 10.

[Heinstar-6822]

I defend any hero that this forum has ridiculous bias against. Right now this is going towards ana, baptiste, mercy, widowmaker, hanzo, and roadhog. So I defend these heroes whenever people call these heroes to be nerfed to the ground.

I let them cook first and if they make a good argument, I engage in a healthy debate. If they say stupid things to justify their reasoning, I either don’t respond back or call them out on it.

[Bellyrub-11553]

@Heinstar-6822

I let them cook first

Ana has been out for 6 years. She has been meta for all 6 of those years. I think she has cooked long enough.

[GreyFalcon-11737]

@Alex-115536

Theres people going around saying stuff like “mercy alone can out heal dragon blade”

Oddly that was because in the background of the clip being referenced. There was an Ana in the background using BioNade, and the rest of her 130/hps equipment.

So yeah, 55hp… Upgraded to 82hps, plus 130hps.

[Alex-115536]

Then the argument is ana+mercy can out heal dragon blade.

I remember a Clip where genji was trying to kill mecree with nano blade, the mecree rolled giving damage reduction, then got suzued and a kiriko + illari + healing pylon was healing the mecree Add on the genji also missed a swing resulted in the mecree living.

And then they got mad that 3 people using their entire kits barley kept someone alive when its a 3v1(2 if you count nano as a person)

Like Im open to debates if people are realistic, but so often its just lies/exajerations.

[Electro71-1835]

The value of an antiheal is drastically different depending on the hero. Total healing block on a cooldown is a massively powerful debuff that should either be a lot harder to land, guaranteed single target, or a heal reduction across the board instead of a total block.

[Terx2-1856]

@Grumblemore-2307

People generally don’t complain that they are constantly getting debuffed but that the debuff itself is so strong.

Depends really. Sombra’s hacking comes close to the debuff being a constant annoyance versus it being strong. Although her EMP changes make the lockout feel worse even if the damage reduction was lowered.

@Grumblemore-2307

Raising the cooldown is always the cheapest fob off a balance team will try. They did it with Zenyatta, making him worse and still annoying people who get tagged by his Discord Orb anyway.

That we agree on. Zenyatta just need discord adjusted to tanks, kinda like how they did it with sleep dart. But instead they made him worse overall even when he was seeing less play when Illari came out.

@Grumblemore-2307

70% might be what is needed as an adjustment on the anti-healing. It doesn’t need any compensation buffs but if anyyhing it could last longer in a cloud effect in a small area, giving some area denial while still allowing enemies to avoid the debuff.

70% would be a good compromise first then maybe seeing if a residual puddle is needed.

Like I said they could make it be a reward for landing a direct hit over it splashing at your feet, make the radius small so it hits less people or a variety of other approaches people here have suggested. But they’ll go with raising it’s cooldown again over anything of that caliber.

It’s a shame because it’s stifles the growth and changes of other characters because they have to compete in an arms race that’s rigged from the start.

[Boarserker-1259]

bro she is strong because SHE CAN’T EFFIN ESCAPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE, mercy can literally rez any pick, she can break DPS balance, she fly at basically whim, she can get outta almost anything with her ult. ffs Bap has AOE healing, AOE healing+self heal, has a fricken immortality field that is big af and can save his WHOLE team from dying, he has mobility if he needs to get out or by time. he has high af HITSCAN dps as well and a ok ult. Christ bro Kiriko can 2 tap squishes, heal from distance ezpz, she can LITERALLY phase thru walls and not die if she has a target, she herself can also wallclimb, ffs she has a nade of her own that grants immortality… and a bap kinda like baps. I aint even going to get into the other supports you get the idea, outside of Zen they ALL can defense or run, she is strong because she needs to be… not her fault you ppl don’t know how to dive/flank. also blame 5v5 for nade being a pain cause it wasn’t shiz with 2 tanks

[Alex-115536]

@Electro71-1835

should either be a lot harder to land

Ive always toyed with the idea of direct hits apply the full debuff duration, and splash hits apply a shorten durration.

[Grumblemore-2307]

An idea for a DPS that I had was that he’d drop an LoS-blocking cloud that did minor damage and applied Anti-heal on targets until they stepped out.

Another idea was that a Hero “stole” healing from a tagged target over a duration. This was extended further with the effect potentially diminishing over time.

Ana could tag a target with a direct hit and cause them to spread the debuff around, causing even more issues than if she just splashed on the ground in a chokepoint.

The possibilities for different ideas on this mechanic just open up if it was toned down in severity.

[RUVINN-2490]

I wonder if emotes work here, hehe. But anyway, this sums it up perfectly.

[Heinstar-6822]

Ana is strong because her playstyle suits 5v5 more than supports like…bap. They had to buff bap multiple times to make him work in 5v5. Because initially, he felt out of the place in OW2 because in 5v5 your team tends to play spread apart, his form of healing only being beneficial when everybody plays close together etc.

Not to mention, ana, bap, and moira are still the only main-healers.

Kiriko is also considered one, but I personally only consider kiriko a “main-healer” when she was first released before her healing amounts got nerfed. After her nerf, I feel like kiriko’s healing became insufficient in keeping tanks alive. I’m not sure about now with the ofuda projectile speed increase though.

So ana, bap, moira, and kiriko are considered to be a main-healer. But moira lacks utility, so she loses out in pickrates against ana/bap/kiriko. And the main-healer of choice will also depend on what comp is meta for that season.

Considering all of the above, it’s no wonder that ana is the most popular main-healer. She is by far the most flexible main-healer compared to bap. Kiriko is debatable since she’s flexible as well. But again, kiriko can’t do as much single target healing as ana.

So until they can release another support that can compete with ana in terms of the amount of healing you can provide to single target allies, ana will always be the king.

What I’m trying to say is that ana doesn’t only have a high pickrate because of anti-nade. Do you guys really think people follow up on your anti-nade in lower ranks? She’s popular even in lower elo because of how strong her single target healing potential is (on top of her anti-nade which starts bringing value in higher ranks).

[GreyFalcon-11737]

@Heinstar-6822

Do you guys really think people follow up on your anti-nade in lower ranks?

So does that mean they could nerf AntiNade, and it wouldn’t be that big a problem?
Especially if they provide worthwhile enough buffs in compensation.