For those who dont believe in forced loss streaks

These “forced losing streaks” happen because you have reached the limit of where your skill level has taken you. When you go on a win streak, you will end the streak at a high mmr, at which point the match maker assumes you have been the carry and will start to place you in matches that you should be able to compete in. Sadly, because of inflated mmr, you then lose a few games to players that are another tier of skill ahead of you, and when multiple players all experience the same or similar win streaks (most common when 6-stacking), the entire lobby is below the level of their opponents and has an inflated mmr, leading to stomps. As you lose these matches, you will fall back down to your real mmr, and the cycle continues. If you reach a point where your skill cap has actually increased, the losses wont happen, and the matchmaker will continue to put you into increasingly difficult matches until you eventually reach a point where you cannot keep up with the skill of your opponents, before you once again fall and level out at a new SR. If the match maker did not work in this way, climbing would be inconsistent and luck based, and we would see wildly varying skills of players playing in the same match. Sadly there are outside elements that also effect this, such as happening to play with other players with currently inflated mmr’s on your team, or smurfs appearing on the other team, but for every time that this ruins your chance of winning a game, you will find another game that you are on the team of the smurf and face the player with an inflated mmr. The matchmaker does not decide that you are going to lose today, it is simply it testing how high a level you can play at, and then when you lose a couple games and become frustrated, your own play deteriorates, leading to more losses. Accept that losing is a normal part of any game, and you will find that your losing streaks tend to be shorter

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OK, let’s review one thing first. When someone has a theory, the burden of proof is on them to prove it true, not the community around them.

Look, I fall into the trap of thinking this too sometimes. Couple good matches and all of a sudden I get the Hanzo and Widow instalocks that never show up on the kill feed, the Lucios that keep their speed music on the whole match, or the DPS only Moiras and think, “Well there goes the ‘idiot algorithm’ to balance things out”. But eventually I had to accept that Overwatch is a game in which there is so much that is out of your control match to match. You can only control your positioning, your game sense, and your mechanics.

Climbing can be done, but it’s really difficult and you’re not entitled to it just because you try really hard and really want it. I fell all the way to the low 1300’s believing I was better than I really was and playing heroes I was only decent at. Then I found a hero that worked for me. I got better mechanically, and as that happened I started seeing the field better and with time gained the ability to set up my own plays and let plays develop before pulling the trigger. In pro sports they say “the game is slowing down for them”. And once that happened, even when I would win two and lose two, it was still a net gain of SR. And I found that there started to be more leavers on the other side than on mine. And I made my way back to gold. Not that it’s saying much but when you’ve been in bronze it feels damn good.

I really hope something clicks for you, but it doesn’t just happen. I had to revisit the entire hero list over and over again before I found a home in Hammond. Maybe it’s time to give the snipers and Doomfist a break for a while. And watch your matches back if you can.

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I know a ton of people have really started climbing when they learned hammond, so that’s pretty dope.

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Oddly I do a lot better with “unorthodox” heroes like him than with your straightforward heroes like Rein or Mercy, crazy as that sounds. There’s something out there for everyone.

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I back this, as until Hammond was released I struggled to get out of silver. Now I’m in diamond. I play all the main tanks now, but I definately reccomend Hammond to anyone wanting to climb out of the lower ranks. He is much more forgiving once you get passed the initial struggle of learning his admittedly difficult mechanics. But once you learn them, oh boy it’s so rare that people in silver/gold will swap to counter you, that you can just run riot over most teams at that level with him

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Agreed, although I will say I’ve run into a LOT of people going Mei or Sombra solely to account for me. But that’s also when you know that you’re onto something, when you notice people swapping because of you. :slight_smile:

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Haha yeah, I guess when I made the climb out of silver Hammond was still too new for people to realise how to counter him. I just figured people swapping to try and mess with me now was more because of being in a higher rank, but who knows. Either way, it feels great when you see the Rein you’ve been targeting all game swap to Orisa, or see one of the dps go mei/sombra, cause you know at that point you’re doing your job right :grin:

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I’m officially convinced you are boosted to diamond

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So you’re flipping the burden of proof then?

Okay

Prove there are no leprechauns
Prove Santa doesn’t exist
Prove unicorns don’t exist

Flipping the burden of proof is a hilariously terrible “argument” or “challenge”
You made the claim. The burden is on you to substantiate the claim.

Source?

I won’t buy your obviously fabricated statistic

People state it is happening because they have an exaggerated interpretation of their own abilities. People say it is happening because they can’t accept they are in the league they belong in.

It’s very easy to figure out why people say it is happening. The real question is how do we show they are right?

They say get better because that is the one and only method that is proven to work. You will never, ever, EVER see a GM “stuck” in bronze-platinum league.
It just won’t happen. They have to try to get down into platinum

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You don’t understand how proof works. You can’t prove the non-existence of something. Like how it’s impossible to prove the non-existence of God(s).

In this case the burden of proof is on those touting the existence of forced loss streaks, not the other way around.

h ttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

h ttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof_(philosophy)

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You forgot about the converse principle. You can’t prove forced losses, but we can prove forced wins by not providing value and still winning. Factor in consistent opponents. Your proven forced wins then proves their forced losses.
But we’re selfish and focus on losses, not wins, so no one does this. We recognize all our undeserved losses, but nowhere close to all of our undeserved wins. That would take really good judgment.

The logic on forced wins is flawed. Sure, you might win while doing nothing but there could be a thrower on the enemy, too. Or perhaps the five other players on your team just gelled really well and outperformed the enemy.

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What kind of proof do you want? I have recorded run from 500 SR to platinum picking what team need as last.

If you have some kind of theory which is not supported by official statements from blizzard, you are the one who need to prove it. And its quite easy. Record your games and show us your forced loss streaks so we can see the truth. There cant be better proof and you will show to all non believers that your theory is right.

But wait, you cant right? Because its nonsense and you will have some kind of lame excuse why you can record or something like that. I am sure of that.

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The problem is it takes work to figure out the mmr algorithm from experimention.

Or you can keep pretending you’re smarter than everyone else so you don’t have to do anything.

Not hard to guess which option you’ll continue to choose.

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Check the VOD posted by OP in that thread, how does someone going 36-0 fit in your conspiracy theory? :thinking:

Maybe you have to accept that you are not good enough, unlucky.

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Never boosted, never grouped, nobody has helped me get to Masters except me, very few other people can say that as most have grouped to get there.

As for tanks carrying, in higher ranks that can happen but in diamond the support is still bad and tanks are only as good as the supports which carry matches inadvertently .

You sound goofy as hell right now lmaoo

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You guys are just claiming tank hero’s carry matches because you heard it in a youtube video recently. I’m specifically talking about reinhardt and winston -

Here’s one question that proves this : How many videos have you ever seen that are solo queue one tricking reinhardt or winston from bronze to GM? The answer is very few possibly none and the reason is because you cannot reasonably carry with these hero’s. <-Period

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Nope. I’m claiming that they can carry because quite often, i carry games lol. Doing a bronze-gm on main tank would be incredibly boring to watch, but its obviously pretty easy for a GM main tank to carry diamond games with diamond supports.

Anyway, would you like to give me a bronze account so i can get it to masters in a week playing winston only?

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The onus is on you to prove the forced loss streaks, since you are the one making the extraordinary claim. “Prove to me there’s no such thing as ghosts” - doesn’t work like that.

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