That’s fine. It’s a perfectly reasonable opinion. I just have issue with labeling opinions as facts. It’s dismissive and doesn’t allow for a conversation.
Well yeah, its my opinion, not a fact. I feel like even when i am playing tanks and support helping to create more games for everyone i still suffer when i want to play dps too. And they practicaly made role q because of people who were playing mostly dps or switching to dps in any sign of trouble in match.
To be fair, 4 years is a pretty good life for any online game these days. I dont know what the stats are for OW, but I would expect that after 4 years the playerbase of a game would start decreasing anyway, and that would logically affect queue times by itself. After 4 years of play, you have also likely got your moneys worth out of the game.
I’m not saying the queues aren’t a problem, but it shouldn’t really be a surprise that the playerbase is smaller after 4 years than it was when the game was new. And a smaller playerbase queuing up, combined with more people queuing dps than other roles is obviously going to mean long waits for dps.
I would also like to point out to everyone, that you are not completely barred from playing the game (or even playing dps) just because of queues. There are other game modes you can play, other roles you can play, and they even put in the “while you wait” games so that you could enjoy something in-gamenwhile in queue. You have options, and it is really nobody else’s fault that so many people ONLY want to play competitive DPS. Saying other roles should be more “fun” is a bad argument. Plenty of people do have fun playing those roles, and a lot of dps players simply dont want to be focusing on heals or tanking, no matter how engaging those characters may be.
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Hyphen and I were having a back and forth over whether it was a fact or opinion earlier in the thead. Just wanted to clarify.
I’ve gone back and forth on my opinion about whether flex players should have an incentive (like reduced queue times) and landed in the slightly against it camp. I’m worried it might get abused and result in more throwing tanks. Also not convinced it’s a good idea to pressure dps exclusive players more than we are…
The counter arguments to those points would be that even if it did encourage more throwing tanks they would derank to reflect their lack of performance in the role. It would also get more players on other roles who potentially would enjoy them if they just tried playing them seriously for a bit. And maybe it’s not a bad idea to further incentivize flexing. The overpopulation of dps players isn’t something that’s new with role queue. Role queue just makes it more fair, because people can’t just refuse to switch every game and guilt trip other dps players into being flex players.
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Your last bit is the thing some people dont seem to understand…The overabundance of dps mains is NOT new because of role queue, its just with role queue now every team is guaranteed to have a balanced composition. And like you said, nobody is guilted/forced into switching off their main just because 4 other people refuse to switch.
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Oh this again. Ok dude, I am not arguing semantics, please dont mistake “Facts” with things that are “True” or are perceived to be true. Those are 2 different things, ok ?
You were the one saying, out of nowhere, that I somehow was trying to make my opinion “a fact” or “more valid” than anyone else. Which is False. I literally quoted no one, and responded no one, ok?
Cool. Lets move on again, point by point:
If you want to have a balanced game that educates players on how to play it and enforces/endorses/encourages good behaviours, then my statement is 100% true and you have to agree. Otherwise theres no logic. 
It is though.
With the role Q, Flex players are not going to choose to Tank/Support 100% of the time, so yes, you are effectively MOVING certain players to the DPS queue.
Role queue doesnt make anything “fair”, you are mistaking, like many others, Forced 222 with Role Queue. Those are 2 different things, ok?
Almost every player is fine with Role Queue, which is having different SRs per role so the matches are more accurate. Forced 222 on the other hand, restricts freedom of choice and forces a comp that leaves many many many other things, including versatility, out of the question or brutally severed (same could be accomplished by literally just using LFG with the 222 template).
Also there are ideas, like the one I posted, that are totally valid and reward flexing (not by just clicking on a queue, but earning wins) but those ideas require a lot of developer work (since they involve MM System overhauls and modifications) so… unlikely to happen.
Linked for relevance, how to make DPS queues shorter:
Personally, I enjoy that one of the ques is 10 minutes and the others are short. With the 10 minute que I can browse the internet or play another game or skirmish during the wait.
You are saying that subjective statements are “100% true” and that people can’t argue with you. If you present opinions as “truths” then I will call you on it.
Also I’m a bit confused… you said you quoted and responded to no one, but you definitely quoted me above and said I was memeing.
Waiting 3 hours to play? I don’t understand what you’re saying, dps que is about 10 minutes. The other two ques are 1-4 minutes so I’m not really seeing how you’re waiting 3hours to play. Also, you can skirmish, change roles, browse the net, or play another game while you wait 10.
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You cant call on things that never happened pal. I said what I said following a logic, if you want to challenge that logic, by my guest.
Your whole “rebuttal” was “nah, you are wrong, and what you say is not true because you put “true” behind”.
You didnt refute anything with that so yeah, thats all there is, a random “nay” with nothing behind it.
Oh you are confused definitely, that I can vouch for.
My first post, the one you nitpicked from, is a response to no one.
Try to keep up pal, if you fail to see the difference between things that are perceived to be true or are true due to X logic and Facts … you are just posting for the sake of posting.
Come back when you have any rebuttal with substance, ok?
Theres a whole post with an explanation, you are just now replying for the sake of it. No more responses to random “nays” with anything behind.
You asked me to not to argue semantics, but if you’d prefer that, sure.
Truth: “That which is in accordance with reality or fact.”
You are putting forth subjective arguements as fact and then getting mad when people say they are. If you’re not aware, calling things “truths” implies that they are based on fact and not arguable. I take offense to people posting gibberish on forums and labeling it as “logical” while being dismissive of other people. And while clearly not grasping what logical is.
Lol, are we totaly off topic now? 
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… a bit.
Sorry, I’ll stop feeding the trolls.
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Its fine do whatever you want i just started to read last two posts and i was like wth is this topic about?
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You cant clearly argue semantics since you post a definition and cant stick to it.
Are you telling me that “logic” is not part of “reality”? Dude you dont know the difference between a perceived true and a fact. You can’t argue anything here. Let alone try to “call someone” on nothing when you are not debating the logic behind the statement.
You are wasting time by arguing about the way a claim was made instead of refuting the claim. Anyone can see that mate.
Again, stop avoiding the explanations and running away with semantics. Argue against this:
Flex players do NOT deserve long DPS queues.
Why is that not true or should not be true?
What logic can you provide that is better than the one I used to get to that conclussion?
You are the only one trolling here mate. You are saying nothing, refuting nothing.
Lets see if you can answer questions then.
Apparently someone cant refute something and debate, and just posts with zero substance behind it 
I already did, what are you on about?
Also, if you want to debate something consider posting points and supporting them.
Also, apparently I’m a filthy liar…
Oh apparently you only read like 10% of all of my posts cool HAHAHAHA. Not disingenuous at all, pretending those replies dont exist, not at all.
“Ok dude”.
Again, you have a lot of reading to do mate. Reading 2 sentences of a long post and replying does nothing. Try to actually read the post before trying to make it seem that you did when you clearly didnt. Its embarrassing
PS: There are 2 replies to that, lets see if you can find them 
Are you referring to you saying things like “if you want people to play all the roles evenly then you need to reward flexing. Therefore I’m 
saying truth and you can’t argue?” Or when you linked that other topic with your suggestions to incentivize flex players?
I’m not saying there is no argument for rewarding flex players. I’m saying please stop being belligerent and getting mad for corrections to you asserting opinions as truth.
P.S. Of course I’ve read everything. It’s either that or getting back to this code review where I’m gonna have to explain why we don’t put static variables in our objects for the 100th time.
This is the result of making dps the “fun” class, making tanks feel like punching bags and making support feel hopeless that they can’t keep up a tank with single target heals (mercy and moira after their nerfs).
For the latter, honestly they just need to buff Mercy’s single target healing, remove rez from the game, and the correct “nerf” to Moira’s healing would have been to split the healing among the number of targets in the cone. Single target will get the max benefit, 2 targets get 1/2, 3 targets each get 1/3, etc., since their main beef with it was the massive multi target healing. But the nerf punishes main tanks thru reduced single target heals.
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This idea is neat! Is there a way to test that in the workshop?
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