Bastion Megathread On His Current Situation (Better version)

General Discussion
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This is a continuation of an old thread and the tags for bold and all that changed so I tried to fix them, let me know if there are any stray tags that aren’t doing anything sitting around (like …) It may have some formatting mistakes as well because I saved it to a text document and that may have squashed everything together. I don’t know if the links will work anymore either. It had 58 upvotes at the time of the forum switch

I redid this post from before so I could add the drop downs without mangling the old one beyond recognition so I’m sorry I had to start it over. I had to put so many drop down and other tags I could not have edited it into the old one.

This took forever to write so if you see any problems please tell me so I can fix them.

click on the little arrows to read it bit by bit without a wall of text

Tankmode first shot bug: Sometimes, when you transform into tankmode, you can't fire your first shot for a full second.

Demonstration by Kolorblind:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXYRFsVr5zI&feature=youtu.be

This is from another post about the bug and the video explains what causes the bug to trigger.

Somewhat recent Bastion threads (still on his current form) with thread creator name, upvotes/downvotes, and thread info

Terranguard (me); This one is about reverting sentrymode and tank. 260 upvotes, 37 downvotes

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20759286904?page=1

GameksTastik;
This one includes Kolorblinds thoughts about Bastion’s self heal and tankmode. 35 upvotes, 14 downvotes.

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20757365599#post-1

Both twitch clips from this thread on Kolorblind’s opinion:

https://clips.twitch.tv/BlatantFuriousHornetAllenHuhu

https://clips.twitch.tv/AliveFaithfulCocoaNononoCat

Zirkel; This one is a radical change but it’d be awesome. 138 upvotes, 18 downvotes.

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20758556320?page=1

Kolorblind; This one is about His tankmode first shot bug. 67 upvotes, 0 downvotes.

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20760856499?page=1

Pachimari; This thread is about how he’s meant to be primarily in sentrymode, not recon. 51 upvotes, 11 downvotes.

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20758437189#post-1

GameksTastik; This thread is about how the rework didn’t change his stats and that Bastion is worse off than before:

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20755745945#post-1

https://www.overbuff.com/blog/2017-02-08-overwatch-hero-tier-list-and-meta-report-the-meta-that-was-promised

https://www.overbuff.com/blog/2017-05-25-overwatch-hero-tier-list-and-meta-report-anniversary-time-capsule

in fact, they appear to have gone down after the rework, and that Bastion is worse in stats than before.

https://www.overbuff.com/heroes

go through all the tiers with it set to competative and the only places he breaks over 1% pickrate is in bronze and silver, everywhere else he doesn’t even have 1%. In Anywhere but bronze and silver he is the least played out of every hero.

It also doesn’t help that he only works in Pirateship. It goes without saying that most people don’t like this comp. I really like Bastion and I still don’t like this comp. Both playing with or against it. It is incredibly powerful but that is the only place Bastion works. He works in it way too well, but is trash anywhere else. That causes a false sense that he is balanced/too powerful. He works in one extremely specific comp only on payload maps and is too good in it. It requires almost all of your teamates to pick barrier tanks or healers to sit on top of him with Mercy’s staff up his butt in order for him to survive and be able to use sentrymode effectivly. The over abundance of shields makes it hard to get at him and with Mercy’s damage boost and incredible healing he is hard to kill even after you get around the barriers. Everywhere else, he just sucks. And as I mentioned, requires 5 other players to play around you. That’s not Bastion being good, that’s 5 people doing 83% of the job for him. (5/6 them make it a %)

His major issues:
Sentrymode

  • Sentrymode was originally built to be a damage dealing mode.

  • He lost all mobility in exchange for high damage.

He was a “glass cannon”. With the nerfs, they took away the cannon, and only took away a tiny bit of glass. He is now the “less glassy barrier killer”. Basically, it went from a usable mode for all 'round high damage in exchange for mobility, to a super niche, only shoot barriers, kind of mode that still has no mobility. They took away a minimum of 2x his damage and anywhere past point blank or at small targets, way more, in exchange for +60 effective HP

Self-Repair
  • Self-Repair activates too slow to be used to save himself.

It can be used under damage but a lot of the time it kicks in too late and he dies anyways. It can’t be used while transforming which leads to situations where you’re just stuck sitting there in sentry, unable to move or fight, and just wait for the meter to run out and you die

Iron-Clad
  • Iron-Clad is just a problem. It makes healing more efficient making pocketing powerful, which just premotes a pocket Mercy, and the resistence is hard to quantify. 50% damage resistance is easy to figure out like with Roadhog, 20% is a little odd. You can’t tell if something will kill you or not. It kind of seems like it’s either UP or if it’s buffed, OP. There doesn’t appear to be a middleground

Iron-Clad only takes effect after a transformation is complete.
This means tankmode doesn’t get it 'till the end of it’s long transformation time whereas it got the 150 armor instantly before.
Tankmode lost 150 armor for ironclad, that used to be ok because he had 35% resist then. With Iron-Clad nerfed, Tankmode lost 150 armor and gained +60 effective HP. It is not tanky enough anymore as well as Iron-Clad isn’t armor so it doesn’t give you the benefits of armor vs pellets.

Most tanks counter him

  • Bastion is supposed to counter tanks and yet:

  • Roadhog has hook which stuns him and tanks him out of sentrymode

  • Reinhardt can charge him which gets him to about 5 HP which Rein can then smash out of him. With the current sentry he can’t kill Rein fast enough

  • Orisa can pull him off ledges and from around corners, just pulling him in a super bad position or forcing him to reposition meaning he doesn’t have his “tank busting mode” for busting the tank

  • Zarya, just gets a ton of charge off of him because his best bet is to melt through her barriers and get her but that hardly happens because she’s has a relativly small size for a tank.

  • D.va can eat all of his bullets while using her boost and missiles. She flies into his face with high damage and invulnerability to him and he can’t do much. She can kill him in one single combo of this.

  • Winston is the only tank he truly counters.

Tankmode

  • “Footstep” sound was increased a ton during the omnic crisis event

  • It’s not tanky enough after it lost it’s armor and Iron-Clad got nerfed

  • Self damage.

it is a close-mid range ultimate except he kills himself if someone gets too close (coupled with no armor/nerfed damage reduction)

Some suggested changes
Self-Repair

  • reduce/remove Self-Repair startup delay

  • Allow healing while transforming

Bastion will be able to activate Self-Repair sooner allowing it to be used in reaction to burst damage instead of after the burst damage as well as making his whole kit work a little smoother

Ultimate

  • reduce ultimate transformation time

  • allow reduced movement during ultimate startup

  • reduce ultimate “footstep” sound

  • remove ultimate self damage while maintaining self knockback (he’s landbound like Junkrat and rocket jumps alot)

  • increase ironclad to 35% while ulting (or for an alternative, see: Rework\new ultimate)

  • apply ironclad the second you start ulting instead of after you finish the transformation

He is usually on the ground and in your face with his ult and sometimes that leads to his death, similar to how Junkrat worked before. With the increased survivability and the removal of self damage he will be able to fight like he’s supposed to instead of just melting

Sentry

  • remove 100 ammo

  • remove Iron-Clad

  • reduce the transform time to what it was before (this one can maybe stay)

  • revert the 50% spread increase

  • revert to being able to headshot

Sentrymode needs to be a damage dealing mode again instead of a “tank/barrier busting” one. It busted both just fine before. It used to be damage for mobility with no strings attached. Now it’s damage and an inability to hit almost anything for mobility with +60 effective HP

Possible Rework
General Changes

  • Sentry: remove Iron-Clad

  • Sentry: revert spread nerf

  • revert headshot nerf

E ability: Tankmode

  • you transform into a weaker tankmode

  • 120 damage per shot

  • “footstep” sound decreased to normal audio instead of the echoing ultimate sound

  • configure time 1 second down from 1.5

  • 5-6 ammo in a clip

  • 2 second reload time

  • no self damage

This will give him some vertical mobility as well as a way of dealing with fast, flighty heroes. It has less damage potential than recon and sentry but has a higher burst with a splash radius.

New ultimate: Overclock

  • boosts and gives 150 armor in any mode

  • You can change modes during the duration at twice the speed

This will allow rapid switching between modes so you can adapt to the situation at hand vastly increasing his ability to change his specialization in a fight

Overclocked Recon

  • 30% bonus speed (7.1 meters per second)

  • double reload speed

This will double down on the main point of recon, movement while making his gun not suck during his ultimate

Overclocked Sentry

  • immune to CC (like Orisa’s fortify)

  • gains infinite ammo

This will increase his effectiveness as an immovable defensive structure while ulting, much like Torb’s level 3 turret

Overclocked Tankmode

  • damage restored to 205 damage per shot

  • infinite ammo

This will just be old tank so you can still assault with higher burst like normal but you don’t get the damage of sentry like Overclocked Sentry or the mobility of Overclocked Recon

Thanks to Zirkel for the rework suggestion. I made some adjustments to either clarify or to change some things to be more balanced. (Such as 150 armor instead of 200 and solidified unboosted tankmode’s damage)

Summary

This will add an enormous amount of versatility to his kit. He can change his modes at any given time, especially while ulting, to change his niche to fit the situation. Each mode still has its downsides but is good in its own niche. He will be one niche to rule them all!

TL:DR
  • I recommend you read the whole thing… Plz…
  • Ironclad is only a problem, it promotes protect the president comps (which most people don’t like) and without those comps it’s not enough. It also reduced the survivability of tankmode after it’s damage reduction was reduced
  • Sentry is too niche now as it can’t be used as an all 'round damage mode in exchange for movement
  • Healing takes too long to activate
  • Some suggested changes: Check that section because there’s too much to summarize here without making it look terrible
Golden Weapon Fix Bastion needs his golden weapons fixed. His tank cannon isn't golden (Genji's dragon blade is) and his welder isn't golden (Genji's short sword is gold too and it's a secondary item as well, like the welder.) IDK why they weren't golden to begin with.
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This is a lot more organized, good job.

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This is actually an amazing idea, im not a Bastion player but I would love to try it out if this was a real thing!

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Thanks! I realized that walls of text immediately turn people off so I made it collapsible so you can read chunks at a time instead of the whole thing blocking your view at once. It also makes it more convenient to read, it’s better categorized too so you don’t lose yourself in the different sections because they’re clearly defined here.

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No problem, just the golden weapon fix doesn’t do anything, or that text below it is supposed to be in it :stuck_out_tongue:

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Golden weapons should be fixed. The worst one is a Doomfist bug (wow another one how unexpected) But if you dont know it. On all rare and epic skins one of his arm spikes is gold only at certain distances. But doesnt appear gold in any preview.
But back to the turret at hand. He does deserve a golden cannon and heal thingy. Along with the buffs you suggested.

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Do you mean the fix is superficial or does the drop down button not work properly?

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The dropdown doesn’t work for me.

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hmm, that’s weird. It’s working for me. Oh well, I’ll just quote it here:

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This thread is perfect, please notice this Blizzard

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Thank you! I too, hope they notice. But then again anyone wants Blizz to notice their thread :stuck_out_tongue:

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Just noticed a bit of a typo here. You misspelled creator.

Also, I am a little disappointed that you didn’t mention the “E” ability changes I suggested. :frowning:

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Sorry, which changes exactly? This is copied basically word for word from the original so it doesn’t have anything new in it.
Oh, do you mean this thread? https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/overwatch/t/bastions-main-problem-and-how-to-fix-it/22981

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Yes! That’s the one.

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BTW I’m migrating back to the old thread because it came alive again. Maybe I could add that on the end but the faster firerate one seems kind of iffy.

I added it in there.

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This is a great thread, i appreciate it mate.

*reduce the transform time = This stands out to me allot, I can’t tell you how many times i spawn and all of a sudden a random Genji, Tracer, Phara attacks me and i start to heal heal heal and by the time i want to shoot back im halfway dead again and its frustrating because there is a little you can do , depending on what part of the map you are in. Every game play is different but sometimes luck can come in to play no matter how good your skills are.

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There is no other transformation or channeling Ultimate in the game as bad as Tank Mode.

It has a uniquely super-long and super-vulnerable transformation time, which cannot be aborted like McCree’s High Noon. Then, if you manage to survive, you have to deal with the same thing in reverse.

It completely reverses Bastion’s playstyle, turning him from a barrier-buster who is countered by tanks into a squishy-killer who lacks the agility to chase squishies, who run and hide at the sound of the whistle and wait for the vulnerable de-transformation they know is coming.

Achieving any kind of mobility requires mastering rocket-jumping. What other ultimate in the game relies on you learning an advanced skill which is useless to the character the rest of the time?

That extends to his cannon, which behaves completely different from his standard weapons and which you never have enough time to truly practice.

The vulnerable transformation, no longer getting extra damage protection at the start of the transformation, and the self-damage from close-range explosions make it impossible to use Bastion’s ultimate as a panic button against flankers, too.

Solution:

Tank Mode doesn’t end until you shoot a certain number of shells, and you can abort the Ultimate at any time by pressing Left Shift to Reconfigure into Turret Mode.

Bastion players can play more unpredictably, introducing far more counterplay. They can exercise the same patience in Tank Mode that they use for Turret Mode, seeking out positions from which to ambush attackers with surprise fire.

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I’d rather he become sturdier rather than tougher.

If no one could take him out of Turret Mode or change his position while he’s in turret mode, that defeats most of the tricks that tanks are using to defeat the robot who is ALLEGEDLY supposed to counter them.

Why does Hog need the ability to pull Bastion down from a balcony when Pharah can fly up and hammer him with rockets; D.Va can fly up into his face while shielding herself and pelting him with rockets; Soldier, Widowmaker, Hanzo, and Orisa can shoot him dead; Somba can hack him from the ground or after translocating behind him; Genji can deflect from below or flank and spank from behind…

Bastion doesn’t need to be countered by Hooks, Halts, Reinhardt Charges, or preemptive attacks by Doomfist (which counter incomplete transformations), because he already has so many other counters!

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Honestly, I think Bastion needs his shield back from beta. A stationary target needs SOMETHING.

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