He is referring to me in the last thread. I am staunchly against the idea for all the same reasons you are. I pointed out nearly everything you did too.
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Really? Thatās amazing, if we actually came up with the same argument against it by ourselves each, I think we are now brothers forever.
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Oh i am so done with thisā¦ 
I Said this, Simply because arguing about it, as if itās all or nothing, Gets us nowhere.
Some people like Tank on E, Some donāt, I want headshots back, And yetā¦ I must be talking about Mobility?!
Letās get something straight.
Sentry mode, Is Bastionās biggest issue.
And i think we can all agree that the reduction of his spread, and addition of headshots, Would fix most if not ALL Of itās issues.
Yes?
Now, otherwiseā¦ Iām also rallying for the removal of Ironclad, Since itās a Non-interactive chunk of Data, That does nothing to indicate an actual difference (Partially since it doesnāt have any real impact, either) And only helps Bastion to be further āPocketedā
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Chibi, itās very difficult to discuss any other ideas when Tank on E gets brought up every other post. Itās a crazy re-work idea that is polarizing to most people who see it, especially since Bastion is such a hated character already. Most people want him deleted instead of re-worked as it stands.
I agree that Ironclad is a bad idea, and I also think itās only effect should work while self-healing.
Sentry needs the most love, and Mobility in general needs to be fixed for him. No matter how good we make sentry, the game is evolving to a mobility meta, and that leaves bastion i the dust, unless there were this strange slow moving objective that needs to be escorted.
Thank you, for agreeingā¦
You see, everyone for some reason thinks that Bastion would either Need mobility toā¦ āKeep upā With his enemies, orā¦ Toā¦ āCounterā It?
The original design of Bastion, Counters mobility heavy comps.
I Genuinely believe that the gutting of Bastion and hog were what led to the DIVE Meta happening unconstested for months.
You just couldnāt āDiveā A Bastion, beforehand, and win.
In-depth "Tank on E" rework for Bastion Read that oneā¦ Thatās what Iām working from, not the OPās Tank on E.
Sentry becomes almost identical to what it was before the rework. Better accuracy, headshots (1.5x just like you suggested yourself), remove Ironclad. He will actually be able to hit his targets, and he will be able to headshot again. Your suggestion has him at a 1.5 degree angle (50% of 3 degrees), whereas mine puts him at 1.25 degrees for 0.3 seconds, and then 2 degrees 0.3 seconds after that. This is almost what he had before, but not quite. He used to start at 1 degree, and bloom to 2 almost instantly.
Most of the rework is putting power back into Sentry mode. Sentry mode gets put back almost exactly where it was, but with the new healing (and Ironclad only while healing). Iām not diluting it just to add Tank to E.
Whether Blizzard does or not is another story, but look at their history thus far. Mercy: Rez on E, new ultimate
Symmetra: Teleporter on E, Photon Barrier moved to ultimate
Torb (speculation based on interviews): Molten core on E, new ultimate
If theyāre planning on reworking Bastion at all (and I doubt they would just buff him, theyāre reworking basically all of the f-tier heroes), thereās a pretty good chance theyāre going to go with Tank on E on their own. If we can get ahead of that, and make good suggestions, we might be able to get a good rework out of it.
Yes, I would love just a Sentry revert. Remove Ironclad, give Sentry itās power back, leave repair, leave Recon. But by the looks of things, thatās not where theyāre headed.
So rocket jump, and shoot over the barrierā¦?
Pharah does 120 damage, and these move fasterā¦ If anything, Pharah would be a mini Tank on E (that can fly)
That part is kinda dumb, I donāt like that.
Heās not transforming into random stuff, heās transforming into stuff he already hasā¦ If the situation calls for a lot of sustained damage, use Sentry. If the situation calls for lots of extreme burst damage, use Tank. I still donāt know of a good use for Recon during his ult, I guess running away fasterā¦?
Not just ZDamned, quite a few others seem to think that thereās no possible way to balance Bastion. They think that thereās no possible middleground for him. Not just with Tank on E, but with straight Sentry buffs or reverts.
Bastion's real damage output (kinda) Hereās a thread going over his effective Sentry mode DPS at various ranges. He falls off fast with his current Sentry mode, whereas Recon is pinpoint accurate for a few bullets. If you manage your spread, Recon can be very useful at taking out distant targets.
I Actually used my ult to do thisā¦ JUST To kill a particularly annoying Tracer, in a Comp game recentlyā¦
It was on Watchpoint, Andā¦ Once the tracer died, the enemy teamās momentum Stopped Entirely.
As she was heavily protecting their healers.
Bastionās ult may not be the worst, but is FAR From the best.
(Donāt get me wrong, NO HERO Should be stuck in place during an ultimateā¦)
But yeaā¦ It was fun.
I literally just JUMPED Over the rein, And Sniped the Tracer. 
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Not permanent, he has limited ammo, and it recharges rather slowly.
Not true, Iāve said that many many times, and addressed that counter many times. Burst damage.
It almost serves the same purpose. There are some jump spots that require more than one jump, which would be impossible with that.
I donāt think this at all. I think itās a very good ultimate (minus the part where the health is trash and using it while not behind a wall or shield is an instant suicide button). I enjoy the ultimate, and I can normally get 2-3 kills per use if I donāt do something stupid. Bastion keeps the same exact Tank ultimate, but gets other options in the processā¦
Again, Iām sorry you feel this way, like no one is listening, but for me personally, I havenāt found a good enough argument against the rework to pick another one over it. I have definitely taken your input on the matter to heart, and have even made adjustments to my thread based on them, but as it stands, I still prefer the rework to a jump ability.
Iāve dodged many ults with a good rocket jump.
A Rein sees me mid-animation and decides to shatter, I finish mine and jump over it, then quickly kill him and a few others. Itās a very fun ultimate, and I want to be able to use the mobility it offers more often.
Okay I read your suggestion, itās basically the same thing, but in your version he is just spammy-ier and more useless in his own ways. The only thing that could possibly be useful is in a 1v1 against a McCree or something like that.
Oh yeah man let me jump up into the air and scratch the tank with my 50 splash damage HELL YEAH THIS NEW BASTION FEELS AMAZING.
No, which ever way you put it, he is a less spammy grounded Pharah.
Good, but the OP likes it, so who the hell do we listen to? My nanny says Bastion should turn into a heli and spam rockets like Pharah, although it would be balanced by 30 damage splash and 60 damage direct hits. You see what I mean? Everyone is making up their own things and claiming theyāre good, when anything we can come up with Blizzard already has or will.
You read it wrong, I didnāt say that he would transform into random stuff. And also are you aware that youāre literally, literally, literally, asking for him in that sentence to be either so diluted he has no place and is weak, making it neither a buff or nerf, or making him so strong he needs to get nerfed.
I didnāt know that, see, itās a common logical thing people can understand when you propose that change.
Yes letās say that even if the Recon damage didnāt have very high damage dropoff at that range, which it does, so you get out of Sentry and you try to snipe with recon, okay you have lower spread, great.
In sentry you still fire 7 seconds longer than you could with Recon mode, hello?! And what you said about Sentry damage dropping off sooner than Recon, thatās not true, Sentryās damage has way longer dropoff itās just that it has such high spread. It would be equally as productive to stay in Sentry and fire at your target in Sentry with more powerful shots at that range than to get up and fire at 10 times slower fire rate and lower damage per shot at almost 3 times shorter shooting times because of the difference in magazine size ā in most situations.
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Funny, because Seagull from the Dallas Fuel made a comment on Bastion saying he needed HS added back.
In my context, the 50% IC would only be during his transformations. EXACTLY like Roadhogs self-heal.
his spread was originally nerfed by 50%, so I think a minimum of 25/30% would be good, because that means 20% was converted into IC.
Iām fine with the transformation time, itās just that IC needs to be applied at the START of his animations, and not after, The opposite for coming out of his tank animation too, so he loses 35% IC in the last frame when he turns back into recon.
Iffy. Interesting, but Iād like to see it in game before I agree.
This is along the lines of a revert. Iām not saying I dislike it, Iām just pointing out that Blizzard might not take this route when balancing him, if they ever do.
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Iām still not sure how this makes him useless. It gives most all of his power back to Sentry mode, which seems to be your main concern with this whole thingā¦
Not the tank, the squishies behind him. And if youāre going for kills with Tank mode, youāre going to need directs. Nothing is forcing you to use Tank, just use Sentry if you need more damage. If someone is running away, or you need to remove someoneās Brigitte ult armor, Tank can be useful for that.
Yes, but when theyāre saying that thereās no way to possibly balance Bastion, thereās something wrongā¦ Usually (Iām not saying youāre wanting this, ovbiously), they just want him nerfed so hard that they never have to see himā¦ Like timers on his modes and buffing Recon so that itās still a more useless version of Soldier, but it looks like it makes up for Sentry being trash.
I still donāt see that. Can you please explain that one further. Are you saying that in my rework he would be diluted, or that Blizzard would dilute him themselves when attempting to rework him? Because I feel that Iāve balanced everything out fairly well. I feel that Sentry has plenty of power, Recon is still a viable option, and Tank is fun to play, and not awful to play against.
This thread isnāt just meant to be a rework idea. Thatās only there to give people an idea of a single rework. This is more meant as a megathread in general for Bastion that contains all of the information and concerns we have about him.
I wasnāt saying the damage falloff, Iām saying his DPS falls off long before Recon does. Sentryās damage falloff is 35 - 55 meters, but his spread is so insanely large at those ranges, that your TTK is going to be much much smaller if you just use Recon instead. At 35 meters, it took Sentry mode Bastion 43 rounds, or 1.45 seconds to kill a training bot. Recon, at the same distance, took 7 bullets, or about 1 second (give or take, because of the spread control).
If youāre talking about old Bastion, then yes, Sentry is better than probably even new Recon. Iām comparing current Sentry to current Recon.
Yeah, Iām just concerned that people will jump on point and spam shift so that they constantly transform, giving them an almost constant 50% damage resist. They wonāt be able to shoot and such, but they can stall pretty wellā¦
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It sounds crazy and stupid, butā¦ a cooldown on reconfigure, of even just a second or two would stop that from happening. 
Donāt mind me, iām justā¦ >.> Here.
And no, i wouldnāt want that eitherā¦ not reallyā¦
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I can tell you for a fact that he will be useless whether you see it or not, or you take my word for it or not.
Regardless, 50 damage splash wonāt affect anyone.
Many people just want to delete random heroes like that, itās not just with Bastion, theyāre still melons.
Being a swiss knife doesnāt work in games like this, the only way Blizzard knows how to balance is imagine a triangle of support, damage, and tanking. You can have a hero only perform at certain balances within that triangle. If he can do all 3, he is either overpowered or so diluted that itās fine he can do it all at once.
I have heard the tank mode on E thing so many times and argued against it for way too long, and seeing it here, on the only active Bastion parade right now, worries me very much to the point that I risk losing all enjoyment with my main, the only reason I still play Overwatch, I know it doesnāt mean anything when we are talking about balance, I just wanted to explain to you personally why I am against this so much.
As I mentioned, you still fire almost 3 times longer in Sentry so it doesnāt matter.
Iām sorry, but why bring up Brigitte?
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Youāre not explaining it thoughā¦ If this would legitimately make him useless, then yeah, Iād probably change my views on it, but Iām not seeing how adding more utility to his kit while maintaining what he already does makes him useless.
It shouldnātā¦ Bastion isnāt an explosives character, he doesnāt need a strong explosive on Tank (unless itās his ultimate). Direct hits should hurt, but the splash doesnāt really need to. Itās for rocket jumping and burst damage, not for seeking out kills. Get into a good position with Tank, swap to Sentry for damage. Tank can clean up kills pretty well, but it shouldnāt be used in the same way that you would use a Junkrat or Pharah.
I agree that Sentry should stay as the focus of his kit, I donāt want it to become even more useless than it is now. I donāt think Tank on E necessarily means the death of Sentry though.
Firing 3 times longer doesnāt matter if they can easily kill you in that time. The faster you can deal with the threat, the better. It doesnāt matter how long you can shoot if youāre not doing any meaningful damage to the enemyā¦ D.va can fire indefinitely, but sheās useless at range because she doesnāt do any damage that far away.
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If I say āthe damage is too lowā or āthe rockets are too fewā then you will say āwell then increase his rocket damageā or āincrease the rocket numberā and then ultimately we boil down to āwell Blizzard will sort it outā which is the main disagreement point and that is what you canāt seem to understand.
I was talking about when you told me that I should simply jump over the shield completely negating the fact that I just wasted one of my few rockets that already do low damage according to your damage suggestions to propel myself in the air so I can hope to shoot over a shield then do a splash damage for 50. You want his ult to be changed for this? No thanks.
I do think that it will be the death of a good and balanced ult, and an addition of a pointless hard to balance random ability. Instead of simply buffing his Sentry.
And you know of a concept called difficulty to achieve vs reward? Thatās the problem you see. The difference is non existent and itās often safer to stay in Sentry than to miss out on getting a nice Sentry shot while trying to snipe with your little sub machine gun.
Also donāt derail the conversation over this into risk vs reward vs enemy comp vs danger of current situation vs healing currently received vs- and so on, we were talking about pure damage output over longer ranges with Bastion in Recon vs Sentry.
He already is except tank is behind his ult. He has 3 modes and he should be able to use them. Itās not like Iām asking for an Apache Attack Helicopter.
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āShot fired, i repeat, Shots have been fired.ā
āWe need backup in the Bastion thread asap, Somebodyās goin Tank modeā