After some consideration, Ball nerf is not that bad

The enemy team doesn’t typically go Sombra/Brig/Cassidy to stop him? Those are 3 heroes high rank players typically swap to to deal with a problematic Ball. I don’t watch much Yeatle

Well yea, it should. It shouldn’t be balanced from bronze on up. That doesn’t mean Spin2win should stay in the game…

I’ve been consistent from that post. If you actually looked at the context of that post you’d understand… I was arguing that balance should not be exclusively around low ranks or exclusively around high ranks… hence that comment starting with

Here is the full quote of that comment

This comment actually prophetically applies to this Ball change… while Spin2win is nerfed by this change, so is other high rank tech. A perfect example of balancing around low ranks wrecking higher ranks

That is a good thing… lower ranked players deserve enjoyable experiences playing this game too…

Just make changes so Spin2win is gone & high level tech isn’t…

Of course, he doesn’t do it if those characters are anywhere nearby. He’s a good enough Ball player to know how to avoid sticking around in one spot against CC-heavy comps.

Spin2Win isn’t worth nerfing the character’s skill ceiling.

Nope. This part:

Clearly indicates that you find top-down balancing better than bottom-up balancing.

Sure. But your suggestions ain’t it.

And until someone makes suggestions that ARE it, I’m against the nerf wholesale.

I find it hard to believe that he’s having many opportunities to use grapple hook for 6+ consecutive seconds while in combat if the enemy team is playing Cassidy/Sombra/Brig/Hog or other counters which high rank players will pick if going against a good Ball. Maybe I need to watch Yeatle stream on Ball, because he must be some kind of God.

Spin2win is worth nerfing if there can be changes made that don’t effect high ranks. Think of the new players & noobs like Naph thinks Mikey is :sob: #ENDELITISM :us:

Absolutely I do.

That doesn’t mean Spin2win should have to exist for lower ranks…

Again, I would be surprised if there wasn’t a followup patch to this within a month.

It’s a good intentioned nerf that needs adjusting.

Ball is performing very well at high ranks, you could argue he needs some kind of nerf, but this one isn’t it if it effects too much of his gameplay besides Spin2win which needs to go since low ranks typically

  • Don’t coordinate very well
  • Don’t aim very well
  • Don’t use voice comms as well as high ranks
  • Don’t counter pick as much as high ranks

Like I said, maybe I need to watch Yeatle stream Ball, because I find it very unlikely Ball isn’t getting hacked, stunned, hooked, you name it, within 6s of being in the same general area in high ranks. He must be quite good. I think high rank players are better than that and would displace him within that time, but maybe I’m wrong. As someone who typically plays at GM Tank/Support level and a high Masters DPS level I don’t typically see too many Ball players able to stay on the same grapple hook for that long. But I have seen Hammond wreak havoc on lower ranks

That’s the thing… that’s not really what this nerf effects. It primarily effects his pre game set ups, and in that regard its a huge nerf.

Okay? Don’t know what you expect me to say, other than “Go watch and see”.


Why? That seems to contradict when you said:

These all sound like great skills to strive towards so you don’t have to deal with S2W anymore.

I’ll check him out :+1:

It doesn’t contradict what I’ve said. Balance being top down focused doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be changes that help lower ranks. What needs to be done is an adjustment to this change that doesn’t effect high rank tech. What needs to be removed is Spin2win for the sake of lower ranks who aren’t killing Ball spinning on point endlessly

If they have time to. Some people just play this game casually for fun, and spin2win isn’t a very fun thing to play against if you’re not capable of dealing with it. I think they’ll find a way to nerf spin2win without ruining a bunch of high level gameplay within the next month or so & patch him. AndyB said they’re closely monitoring feedback

I find it pretty unlikely they’ll ignore all the feedback about high level play being effected

You specifically said that you shouldn’t balance the game to help people who play the game improperly.

That’s exactly what this nerf is.

I never suggested that you can’t make balance changes to help low rank issues like Spin2win…

I said that top down balance is how the game should be balanced… not that you shouldn’t make any balance changes unless they solely effect high ranks. Low ranks need to be considered too… and they need to remove Spin2win without hurting high rank play

Yes you did. You specifically said NOT to balance the game around people who play the game improperly.

There is a difference between balancing around low ranks and making a balance change that addresses a low rank only issue…

Junkrat is a good example… they would probably nerf him a few times if they balanced around low ranks. And I don’t think they should nerf Junkrat.

Nope. You made it very clear that you were talking about balance changes which “incentivize” low rank players to get better.

Nerfing a character specifically because low rank players can’t aim or properly counter is exactly the type of nerf you said NOT to do.

:laughing: What do you mean nope?

I’m informing you of what I said in totality in the threads you linked. Balance should be top-down, that doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be balance changes that help make low ranks more enjoyable as long as they don’t ruin high level play in the process. That’s what top down balancing is. Everyone is considered. Spin2win isn’t a mechanic that should exist for a potentially infinite duration.

You’re mistaken, I’ll quote myself

If I’m agreeing that balancing exclusively around either high or low ranks is a massive problem… that means I think all ranks should be considered for balance.

All ranks need to be taken into consideration. Neither strictly high rank balance nor strictly low rank balance is good… Blizz should & does balance with big picture in mind. Like I said a few times now think they will roll out another patch within a month to make Spin2win less of an issue for low ranks while not effecting high ranks. That’s good. Spin2win already doesn’t exist for high ranks, so getting rid of the possibility of that for low ranks shouldn’t be an issue to anyone :man_shrugging:


Why can I even post this “body seems unclear” what a place to be

Geez so quick to just point the finger. Not even a good accusation either since my first post wast even focused on Mikey’s and you’re the one who started a random back and forth on something related but not the point that i was talking about.

:laughing: Wild world we live in, isn’t it?

Nope. You specifically said NOT to consider those types of players. You’ve REPEATEDLY said so, in fact.

You’ve been pretty adamant here that you DO NOT want the devs to balance around low ranked players, or those who don’t want to win and improve.

That’s not pointing the finger. You and Poytheon are the ones who brought that back up.

In fact, here you are again, bringing it up yet again after we’re long past it.


I’m advocating for a change that benefits low rank players… the only issue with the change is that it also effects high rank players & should be changed as a result…

I’m advocating for a change that specifically benefits low rank players (removal of spin2win), and I’ve said several times that low rank players matter & they should be considered for balance… what are you talking about?

Are we here to talk about the Ball change or how I think balancing should be done?? :thinking:

Going into my post history is kinda sus tbh… lets stay on topic here.

Again wasn’t about what Mikey said originally,

Which was a response to…

Which first of all never I never said Naph was wrong, only that is argument was illogical. What i said was not addressing what Mikey said but what Naph said.

For Mikey to come in here and say that he threw a stick of dynamite, and then you to point the finger at me for continuing what Mikey claimed to have caused is false.

It wasn’t bringing anything back up, it was telling you the statement you made is not very good, because it makes no sense.

You’re saying that in this thread, while in previous threads, you repeatedly made it clear that you did not not want low rank players to be considered in balancing, specifically because it would not incentivize them to get better.

Your post history is very enlightening to the conversation, though.

You’re retreading a conversation that is long past, anyway. Proving my point that you and Poytheon are primarily the ones who cared about it in the first place.

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I haven’t seen a quote where I’ve said that low rank players should not be considered in balancing. I do agree that you shouldn’t incentivize not having to improve… If I’ve said that verbatim, please link it, I can’t recall ever saying that.

Not sure how. This conversation is about the Ball change nerfing spin2win & how it is disproportionately negatively effecting high ranks & should be changed so it doesn’t.

I happen to think making it so you have to be damaged in the last 6 seconds for grapple hook to be released is a good change, because it will still allow you to stay elevated with grapple infinitely to set up initiations but still nerfing spin2win. It wouldn’t really effect high ranks because high ranks are going to punish any Ball player that is grapple hooked in the same place for 6+ seconds within that 6 seconds, they won’t just be able to stay there, they’ll get stunned or hacked or hooked, something.