Why using the wayback machine? The wiki saves everything by default.
1 Like
The main issue with normal Wikipedia for sym is that the oldest revision is past June 2018 which is when the 3.0 rework came out
That’s at least what I saw
I don’t know how to look at the old iterations of the fandom wiki if that’s possible. I would definitely want to learn how it can be done
No. There should be a 500 on the bottom. Click on it on it shows your more past versions.
The first one should be november 2014.
then you’re blind to the overall picture of the gameplay.
-
does primary still need either a massive distraction or team escorting for sym to be able to use it meaningfully?
-
is current primary used for anything else other than w+m1 battering ram-like use case or finishing off low hp targets within range which old primary was?
-
does how restrictive those above conditions still make primary have really low uptime and still make orbs being used much more than it overall?
-
are orbs still so inconsistent due to how lenient they are to dodge in many ranges that aim matters little and you still end up just spamming them in the general direction of where the enemy is going?
as mathematically proven above- even irrespective of old shield pierce or whether they have a shield when at range?
- even irrespective of old shield pierce or whether they have a shield when at range?
-
are orbs still used to try and get initial burst damage as one approaches their target getting as they get into primary effective range (so primary can be used as a finisher)?
-
do you still need to make sure enemies don’t have los on you nor where you want to place your turrets nor the path leading to those spots when wanting to place them further up/aggressively?
-
did old barrier meaningfully change the above use cases or conditions for those use cases for most of the match time?
-
did shield gen meaningfully change the above use cases or conditions for those use cases for most of the match time?
when taking tp out of the mix/consideration for 3.0 and comparing the gameplay between that vs old sym, what’s left is really how there’s changes that didn’t meaningfully change all of these use cases nor their conditions/requirements. such use cases and conditions being what drives/characterises the gameplay the hero has, esp when then ones above are very core to kit’s gameplay.
pointing and screaming at inconsequential changes e.g. “omg they went from like ~10m/s to 25m/s, HUUUUUGE” despite objectively still being one of the slowest projectiles in the game or “omg it went from 7m attach and 10m detach to 12m range is HUUUUUGE” despite literally still being much lower than a vast majority of other weapon fires’ effective ranges is plain downright disingenuous.
doubling something really small is still small. it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s enough nor that it actually a large enough difference to claim that the hero was “completely/100% replaced”.
high key where did you see the 10m detach bit? because I legit couldn’t find that. like waybackmachine only shows back up to 2019 stuff for me now.
but if that’s true, it means I was right 
@ tommy
Your right I was looking at some scuffed wiki page. 7-9.5 seems to be the range pre 3.0. The standard Wikipedia article only goes back to 2018 yet the fandom one goes back to much farther which is what we need
Okay. Here is a tutorial:
- Go to her wiki page
- Click on “history”
- Scroll down to the bottom
- Click on “500”
- Scroll down again until you find an entry from 2.0 times
As I said there are 2 values for her deteach range (one from 2016 and one from 2018). But considering the latest entry before her rework sais 9.5 I think this is the correct number.
1 Like
Oh is the fandom one not good enough?
You played like this? That’s bad of you you could have done much better just pealing for your supports with primary that’s what it was meant for. Not being aggressive
Wait you don’t think +75hp is huge that’s bad of you. Even plus 25 is pretty nice that’s an entire extra shot from phara or mecree which is a huge breakpoint in this game since mecree is so strong
Stuff like that is why I can’t take you seriously you don’t know breakpoints you don’t understand the niche value in all of these parts of her kit.
Instead you will just anchor down in your old viewpoints without ever trying to understand the world around you. You already assume you are right which is the biggest mistake. I know I have so much more to learn because I know I am dumb. But not looking from other perspectives is a bad thing
2 Likes
No it definitely is good enough definitely better than what I was looking at:
You can tell just from the massive number of previous iterations it has
Imma take a nap goodnight
it’s plain and simple the condition of the use of primary. if neither happened you’d be waiting while you spam orbs as mentioned in a later point. like you simply aren’t going to get a chance to use primary unless those happened (or alternative I guess they flanked to you).
either way the point remains, the conditions for primary has not changed.
the use cases for primary have not changed.
the conditions for orbs have not changed.
the use cases for orbs have not changed.
did it make sym suddenly not need team escorts, huge distractions or the enemy to close the gap for her to use primary?
did it make sym orbs suddenly more aimable in most ranges?
did it make sym orbs suddenly reach and stay in ranges where orbs are aimable?
did it make sym use orbs or primary for another use case aside from the ones provided previously?
did it make sym not forced to position way outside of both her weapon fires’ effective ranges?
did it make it so that she no longer needed to make sure enemies don’t have los on her nor where she wanted to place your turrets nor the path leading to those spots when wanting to place them there?
i.e. did it really change the use cases and conditions/core prerequisites of those uses cases much?
the answer to all those questions is an obvious no. the same when we consider old barrier too.
you legit never showed how the point’s I’m raising are false. I’ve legit used kit numbers, numerical proofs + gameplay footage at a top 500 player that demonstrates exactly the points I’m talking about.
all you’ve done has just been only making claims and non-substantive statements like “how could you think X?”, “I made it to GM, where did you land?” and “I can’t believe you think X”. like you have literally given 0 substance to your claims.
e.g. your “but muh thresholds” argument amounts to little to the points I raised. like it takes mccree another 1~2 shots to kill a 275hp sym sure, but how much does that actually matter to her overall gameplay? like does that extra 0.5~1s matter when it takes sym way longer (and very likely much more resources) to gap close + her much longer ttk on others or her really long setup time to make a difference in the overall gameplay (no I’m not talking simply about 1v1s here nor am I simply just talking about damaging either)? it obvs simply just wasn’t, even with old barrier in the mix.
Glad I was able to help 
1 Like
no, it absolutely did change things.
It really didn’t change much in terms of the conditions to use primary, or orbs effectively or to get more valuable spots for turrets.
As stated way earlier before,
-
when further away the linear barrier only provides decent amount if cover against highly static shooters, which isn’t often considering the amount of mobility a lot of heroes have an often the path to reach sym’s effective range (whether for weapon or aggressively turreting enemy territory) will be covered by enemies from multiple different angles —> still need either team escort, massive distraction or the enemy to go out of their way to come to you.
-
When up close the barrier simply only gives fraction if a second amount of cover that is only meaningful in very specific situations which simply by definition is a minor aspect of the overall gameplay.
-
Adding +75 hp to break some thresholds doesn’t actually change very much about the conditions of use/uptime because the small amount of extra time alive it gives simply far pales in comparison to the time it takes to either;
- Gap close + ttk on others (esp when you consider how low her effective range was vs wasd mobility only)
- Or gap close + turret up + walk back to a position
All of which all in all not actually meaningfully changing much on the conditions for uptime for old sym and defs was adding use cases either.
Tell that to Stevooo. He is constantly in the top 100 as a Sym onetrick, and carries…
1 Like
I’ve seen his videos stevoo is far far worse now than before Symmetra got completely nerfed across the board. He contributes very little and does not carry on Symmetra anymore. He is not one tricking he is with a friend many times and gets carried honestly a lot of the time. A lot of why he is still in GM which he isn’t always so I don’t get where you think he is constantly top 100, is because of the game sense he has gotten from playing so long not the inherent mechanics of sym itself anymore because sym doesn’t bring much to the table anymore. Almost all his videos are clickbait saying melting team with primary or something and in reality you watch and there might be one engagement where he gets primary actually charged up and used on an enemy and gets maybe two kills while pocketed and a third kill being a final blow on someone elses low hp target. That is about the gist of his videos being clickbait now. He doesn’t accomplish much of anything on Symmetra. Notice how he doesn’t do anymore rank up videos either. Why? Because Sym is so bad now it wouldn’t just take the 3 weeks+ it took before as a t500 player it would take a lot longer. I’ve taken 5 sym only accounts during 2.0 version to t500 one to t10. You could get a sym only account during 2.0 to gm in two days and it would take another 1-2 days to t500. That’s a far cry from 3+ weeks 3.0 was and god knows how long this heavily nerfed version of 3.0. I find it very disingenuous to reference stevoo as an argument that 3.0 is still viable when in reality it’s a husk of what it used to be. Stevoo is a bit of a troll, the content he puts out now shows he clearly struggles to be of value compared to before and certainly does not carry but gets carried the majority of the time or at the very least tries to stay neutral and not get in the way of the rest of the team and give them opportunities to do something. That’s his intelligence showing, his game experience, literally nothing to do with the hero itself. This type of game style was how most high level symmetra players had to play always before with a tactical nature. Symmetra now is just bad, very bad. Literally her whole kit got nerfed by 20% or more, come on. I don’t get how people can be so naive to argue Symmetra is still viable. She was borderline ok/good prior to the massive sweeping nerfs, never great.
1 Like
Defensive playstyles aren’t for everyone to enjoy, as they require certain self-restraint.
deadass the only thing i think holding her back is a lack of range.
as soon as her beam matches that of zarya she can then actually work as a counter to rein zarya and play well into it.
Unlikely, as she still lacks staying power. Zarya has shields and more health.
sure, but symmetra works succesfully by either snowballing with charge or creating an area of denial.
more range allows her to play safer when she needs to be aggressive and allows her to increase her area of denial vicinity.
this buff is simple yet multifaceted