Too bad, that we already have a lot more versatile anti-shield heroes. Making Symmetra a lost cause, unless her beam gets sniper range.
I’d like to see sym changed for the better, but the only thing that’s holding her back is her cheese/annoyance factor. The devs know she is frustrating to play against so that’s why she’s intentionally kept down with other heroes that can be frustrating as well (Sombra, Bastion, etc…)
The devs know that if one of these frustrating heroes is meta for too long then the player base will start to leave to move on to more fun games. Sorry to say it but you guys that main these heroes wanting buffs or changes probably should just give up and move on.
See I disagree; I remember in the early days of Overwatch when a good McCree was a good counter to a talented Tracer, and there were even OWL plays where a McCree took prime spotlight for a play that he made; it wasn’t as common as other characters, but it was also something that did actually happen for him, unlike say Symmetra or Torbjorn and the other genuinely underwhelming characters.
It’s fine to say that he struggles compared to Widow and Hanzo, but it’s not true to malign him as this neglected character that never had a chance at all. McCree was pretty strong on launch, he was a specialist that required aim and timing, but there were people who managed it. It just wasn’t super common.
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That fell apart really early on. By season 3 players had advanced to the point where it was 50:50 at best, if not outright favoring tracer.
Except he was. Just because there were worse characters didn’t make him any better. Aim and timing couldn’t compensate for his poor uptime and durability, and the high risks he needed to take to do anything, along with a trash tier ult. His OWL moments were really just getting hard pocketed on Ilios well.
You can’t dismiss his moments when he HAD the moments, though, that’s my whole point.
Everyone is so ‘all or nothing’ they act like you can only be the absolute best or you don’t matter at all! That’s not how this works. McCree wasn’t the best, no. BUT, he was THERE, unlike MANY OTHER CHARACTERS, which makes him far from the absolute worst either. That’s my whole flippin’ point!
He was far from Bastion, or Sym, or Torb.
Except it is? For most of OW’s history, you had 2~4 viable DPS, and maybe up to half the roster during really good metas. Anything below that was trash. Some were less trash, but they were still trash. McCree fell into this category.
I find mobile heroes a lot more frustrating to play against, than Symmetra or Bastion ever would. At least Symmetra won’t be performing double jumps around you, while throwing shurikens everywhere, and won’t fade into thin air or send you into nearby wall.
I’m not really feeling anything anymore.
Yeah adding an extra 1-2 shots to a mecree is important. Especially when you can also add her old shield to make it a consistent 2-3 shots. With any healing it also gets another shot because of how close they are to the next threshold.
But this game is based on the combinations of teammates and enemy’s there are. So many different combinations change how the game can be played. So many different combinations change how the health threshold saves people when they would otherwise die. I tried to explain it with just one or two hero’s yet it really should be looked at in a larger sense. Hanzo and mecree are easy as one shots and quick eliminations no longer work. This is a support ability it doesn’t only apply to her old self it applied to her team.
That’s time that’s given to you one of the most valuable things to get. Extra reaction time can mean the world in this game and is so broadly applicable
Changing the tools given to you should change your mindset on what you want to do with the character.
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when it freaking takes like
- 2~3s to kill + god knows how long to gap close into 7m of the enemy without dying along the way, how much does like 1~1.5s extra time to live matter to what sym needs to get close and stay close?
- or like 1.4s PER turret to place + 2x god knows how long to gap close into where you want to place those turrets (2 times because you need to walk back), how much does like 1~1.5s extra time to live matter to what sym needs to do that for setting up zones?
it’s very blatant that it didn’t matter much when it came to conditions for uptime —> overall gameplay
we’re talking about sym’s gameplay here and only sym’s, i.e. whether +75hp matters for like tracer or whomever that isn’t sym simply doesn’t matter to the topic.
and trying to argue “but this is a team based game” a.k.a “but teammates can fill in gaps in her kit to get uptime” isn’t a counter argument at all, but rather showing the very problem I’m pointing out, deficiency in the kit to get independent uptime. if the vast majority of heroes, irrespective of role, can get reasonable independent uptime frequently, then simply not having that is inherently a very big hole in the kit.
and to reel this back in to the original topic of “did the 3.0 rework completely replace old sym with a completely different hero”, the fact of the matter is that the core uptime conditions and core use cases have not changed when you take out tp one e for consideration, i.e. the core gameplay highly resembles each other when tp on e is out of the equation.
only if the change is meaningful.
Instead of buffing damage, why not buff the slow effects of her kit?
Some potential changes:
Slow effect to the Orb so if you are near the orb or are hit by the orb you get slowed down.
Make the Orb like a lightining ball that can chain lightning?
Make her beam slow enemies down like Mei’s cryo freeze? Actually this would just make her a damage oriented Mei instead.
Colorblind and fitzy got other trash characters to top 500. Outlier onetrick skill is not an argument.
Also steevo got symm 2.0 in top 500 on attack and every map. That don’t make bastion and sombra good
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Actually it further shows the problem. Currently symmetra is only good on lijang (except that oone map where pharah is better)
One map in the whole pool is way too niche, and honestly, she isn’t good enough for lijang. If she was the lijnag tower hero she has to be an absolute monster on lijang. Picked on both sides best in slot always, because she is the lijang hero. Her best niche only warrants her being… decent.
Fine lets play that way. Make symmetra the absolute god of liang tower where she is straight up meta defining there. She will still be bad on all other maps but make her absoltely bustedon Lijang
SG active = uptime. Stop trying to force Symmetra into active combat, as it’s not her objective at all.
Symmetra’s ult was charging insanely fast - even her turrets could on their own get it from 0% to full in ~8 seconds.
You keep talking about how Symmetra herself was played “pretty much the same”, but you keep forgetting about effects she had on her team. Adding 450 hp to total team health pool is a lot - while it may add just an extra shot to kill one teammate, it means 6 extra shots to kill whole team, entire clip of McCree.
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sure if you count something like tracer trying to snipe with her primary as uptime because all her mobility is on cd… which it really isn’t.
shield gen alone being up and as being pretty much the main thing that’s contributing isn’t meaningful enough to count as a hero’s uptime as explained previously.
pretty much everything else she could do is high cd not to mention she couldn’t even reach to where it’s actually most valuable to setup turrets on her own to be able to get much uptime for that —> high down time placements for turrets because they’re further back spending more time being idle. legit the only thing she could mainly actively provide has been damage and even then she couldn’t get in effective range for that, hence why she was forced into spending most of the match time spamming orbs way outside of their effective range.
because
Your uptime is buffing teammates. End of story.
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