2-2-2 DPS queue times - fix the demand not the supply

[EFR-11282]

There were no feedback cues the game provided that would have told me I was playing one of the best games of my life. If supports and tanks got strong positive feedback for PLAYING THEIR ROLE, more people would want to play it.

This would be so much cool! But I have no idea how they would improve this to tanks, which have a more complex role in the game.

[Vilkath-1644]

The underlying problem of the issue is most players just don’t find tank/support fun to play. You can dress it up however you want but people just don’t feel impactful in those roles and at the mercy of their team to do well.

The current system is to bribe Tank/support players to play with faster que times and free rewards like loot boxes and credits. Given OW is on a bit of a decline in terms of players after 3 years it will only get worse.

If Blizzard can’t fix the demand problem for tanks and support, to make the role feel good to play there won’t be any one to prop up the DPS players eventually. Role lock might just be the death of OW in the long run tbh.

[Kazooie-11122]

I still like the idea of loosening the matchmaking restrictions as long as it’s on a role vs role basis. Both teams should have equally matched dps, equally matched tanks, and equally matched supports. But that’s not to say you can’t put 3800 tanks, 4200 supports, and 4600 dps in a game and still have a fair match, yeah?

The match quality would go down a bit, but it would be nowhere near as bad as it was in the past when you couldn’t match sr’s based on roles fairly.

Ideally whatever bandaids they throw on this would be temporary. Though there is an important detail to be had here: In GM, 2-2-2 was more common than any other rank. Now, suddenly, the dps queue is the absolute highest among any rank. Not very intuitive for the rank with the most flexing to have the worst 2-2-2 queue times. AFAIK that means either one of two things:

• Either a significant amount of people who used to be among those flexing (even though they wanted dps) are waiting in 30m+ dps queues, refusing to off-role now that they’re guarenteed a dps slot
• Or there is an influx of dps players returning specifically for that gaurenteed dps slot. Presumably the reason they quit in the first place was a lack of that guarenteed team comp, otherwise, why would role queue bring them back?

Could be mostly one, could be both, who knows, only Blizzard. Though I would find it funny if it was mostly the former - the guarentee of not having to flex causing an unexpected attitude change in players that causes queue times to skyrocket past Blizzard’s projections.

I think it’s mostly the latter though.

[predat0r-2569]

but hey if you got supply side solutions let’s hear them!

DPS only DM mode while you wait in queue, the higher you place the shorter your queue time.

Lets face it, until supports and tanks start to feel more like DPS, many people won’t want to play them.

Hammond, Zarya and Ana are examples of the middle ground that the character designers need to strive for.

[GreyFalcon-11737]

Make it so that queuing for Tank/Healer gets in a previous round makes you guaranteed to get DPS the next game in a much faster queue.
(Raising the supply of average skill Tanks/Healers)

I think it is a good idea, but it should be a reward for good performance, otherwise a DPS main could throw a Support or Tank match just to get priority.

Fair enough.

Although barrier tanks and healers are pretty easy to measure for that.

OffTanks, dunno.

But in sure they got stats for what makes a good offtank.

[SlayerAdam-21497]

Here is another idea: perma ban half of the dps heroes.

You cant just ruin the game for dps players even nore, after introducing a system that ruins queue times for them…

[SlayerAdam-21497]

So if you are a bad tank player and want to play dps specifically for that reason you are punished even more.

[GreyFalcon-11737]

Here is another idea: perma ban half of the dps heroes.

You cant just ruin the game for dps players even nore, after introducing a system that ruins queue times for them…

Hyperbole and “change things without changing anything”.

Those arguments aren’t getting any better.

[predat0r-2569]

but it should be a reward for good performance, otherwise a DPS main could throw a Support or Tank match just to get priority.

This isn’t actually a problem. If they throw they will get banned, if they play poorly they will eventually get placed at a rank where they can make a difference.

[SlayerAdam-21497]

All you are suggesting are changes that would make the game even worse for dps players.

Here is a solution that would be fair: 4-1-1 role lock

[GreyFalcon-11737]

So if you are a bad tank player and want to play dps specifically for that reason you are punished even more.

Eventually your tank play would reach a point where you are an average tank player. Even if that’s in Bronze.

[GreyFalcon-11737]

All you are suggesting are changes that would make the game even worse for dps players.

No doubt.
However that’s what a tradeoff is.

Trading something unacceptable, for something that’s merely disagreeable, is an upgrade.

[SlayerAdam-21497]

Great, now we are at rewarding people to throw to get to a low rank, where they can get easy wins to get dps

No doubt.
However that’s what a tradeoff is.

Trade off is what you call it?
Sigh…
Time to rever role queue.

[EFR-11282]

@SlayerAdam-21497

Here is a solution that would be fair: 4-1-1 role lock

@JeffreyKaplan

We actually tried a mode we called “411” because it limited comps to 1 tank, 1 healer and the rest DPS.

It was not fun and we didn’t enjoy it. The way the game is tuned, the importance it placed on the lone tank or lone support was too significant. Also, we’ve all evolved as players since 2016 and we’re much better these days at melting the tank or melting the healer than we used to be. Once your lone tank or healer died, it felt like you were forced to completely regroup with no chance of pulling out a win.

It was a good experiment for us to try and led to a lot of good discussion. But yeah, wasn’t fun…

They tried 4-1-1, but not cool for solo tank or solo support player.

[GreyFalcon-11737]

Great, now we are at rewarding people to throw to get to a low rank, where they can get easy wins to get dps

I figure the Tank/Healer play wouldn’t need to be a win, just not throwing.

It’s basically just an alternative to staring at a queue timer.

And if the system gets “gamed” too much, just make it be time, that reduces the relative time on your queue.

[Destrolock-2131]

Dont get me wrong.
I’m not against more tanks and supports.

I don’t like the idea of 2-3years without a single dps addition.

I hope you can understand me. If not, i think its actually sad.

[SlayerAdam-21497]

They tried 4-1-1, but not cool for solo tank or solo support player.

No doubt.
However that’s what a tradeoff is.

And if the system gets “gamed” too much, just make it be time, that reduces the relative time on your queue.

Skipping ahead in the queue is still not a nice thing.

[GreyFalcon-11737]

Skipping ahead in the queue is still not a nice thing.

It’s not really skipping ahead, so much as spending your queue time elsewhere.

Even if that elsewhere is playing a Plat Tank.

[Grey-1561]

I had a long typed out diatribe about how they might be doing this intentionally to the DPS. DPS was always the issue prior to Role Q. the forums weren’t flooded with QQ posts about people saying they were tired of random Qing comp into 5 healers, but there was at least 1 post a day about someone flaming the group of DPS that refused to swap rolls to make a “viable” team.

I don’t think there needs to be a fix to the DPS Q times. you want to play DPS every single match, well this is the price to pay to play the most coveted role in the game at this time.

[SlayerAdam-21497]

Tanking in plat sounds like a nightnare scenario. Yikes

I don’t think there needs to be a fix to the DPS Q times. you want to play DPS every single match, well this is the price to pay to play the most coveted role in the game at this time.

Well, you would be absolutely wrong, you cant just chase away people from the game