Upcoming XP Changes

General Discussion
86

It would be great if these changes were entirely scrapped. 2018 HotS was the best version of HotS to date (And I’ve been playing the game consistently since Nov 2014). Snowbally games happen, they will always happen. Objectives tend to snowball the game early pre-10 because a) the solo laner of the defending team isn’t side-soaking while the 4 man is defending b) people are feeding during objective push (Volskya is best example. I can’t tell you how many games I’ve played where people just run at the Triglav and get chunked).

The problem is the playerbase which will only solve itself by bringing more players into the game. You cannot fix or educate the playerbase and any attempt is wasted energy. The game has been released for 3 years, there are plenty of resources already out there for players to improve at the game.

But catering to the part of the playerbase that has no willingness to learn (and is likely responsible for the largest statistical chunk of snowballing games) is a mistake.

The game as it stands now (live patch) has strategic depth and rewards the team winning the game. The comeback mechanics exist in both mid and late game teamfights (down talents, levels, or both), and structural XP (Team that is 17 vs 19 and hasn’t killed a fort will spike harder as they begin taking structures; ultimately closing the XP gap and maybe getting a 20 to 20 fight).

The point is, if you’re feeding, if you aren’t pushing structures, if you aren’t winning teamfights (and objectives), you don’t deserve to win the game. For example, if you are behind level 6-7, and you keep feeding/missing soak, you deserve to be down heroics by the next objective. Who wants to play a game where you are dominating the other team or being dominated? Nobody. But these games happen, they WILL happen. Sometimes you are just outmatched and you lose in sub-13 minutes.

Does the design of the game bear the crux of responsibility? No. It’s likely a combination of a poor match maker (since MMR isn’t always indicative of individual skill people can boost, are likely still boosted from Alpha), a subsection of the playerbase who refuses to learn or lacks gamesense, and the genre (MOBAs are punishing; tho HotS is by far the most forgiving compared to LoL and Dota).

Ultimately HotS is a great game and I’ve enjoyed it. I have also appreciated all the changes the devs have made to the game over the years, except this one. The whole concept of removing XP from structures needs to be scrapped. If snowballing really is an issue worth addressing then less-extreme measures should be tested (on PTR, not just in-house) to combat it. But otherwise, if it ain’t broke don’t fix it!

3 Likes
87

Agree with this 1000%. I don’t know why the changes are supposed to fix. They fix nothing. And in a way they prevent players who are more knowledgeable of your game from advancing out of what is a growing pool of low skill players who really don’t care to learn about your game anyway.

These low skill players are quite content with just logging in, and looking and playing with the creations you made but beyond that… the game is a mystery that doesn’t interest them in the slightest.

All your system needs to do is make a distinction and identify different types of players so it matches them more appropriately. And if not, leave everything alone so players can mmr/rank up and away from what is boring, menial, and burdensome low skill game play.

P. S. I know the changes help to eliminate the “damned if you do and damned if you don’t” problem that arises (i. e. when you have one player who knows a better game/how to play and 4 others who don’t). Still I’d rather just see the skill system improve so that situation doesn’t happen anyway.

3 Likes
88

Thank you for the fast response! I still believe these changes are good as they are but more incentive to play offensively will certainly help the community perception.

1 Like
89

The point you fail to realize is that subtle changes are much better than large scale and less over all game changing.

1 Like
90

Congrats, you caught Blizz in their lie.

91

Oh God, this could be abused so hard.

Save up like 15 catapults then go to that lane and instantly delete everything.

6 Likes
92

Thank goodness is all I can say. I am glad the feedback was actually listened to with these upcoming changes.

These are among the most widely talked about issues in tandem with the structure incentive, they’re not really something that can be separated as the issues with the lack of exp on forts. It just creates a further disincentive since catapults early game are so weak that they don’t actually threaten structures and end up simply freezing lanes for your opponents and spoon-feeding them exp as a result, hence its a cascade effect.

So I do hope these will be among the changes they will address, I mean there are enough replays and video clips going around to highlight this issue so I hope it isn’t forgotten.

1 Like
93

Yay for delusions, right?

94

It looks like you cater to the easy mode they implemented to the game early this year. Hate it to break it to you buddy, but with these XP changes, you actually gotta be good or you’ll be wrecked.

There’s still AI for you pansies though.

95

No, I just value map strategy.

96

Oh God, cap at 2-3. Also 90 sec spawn.

97

Pffff, lol, this still exists as a strategy for TLV on Infernal Shrines.

98

There’s less strategy now than there has ever been in this game.

Which means you cater to an easier game because you don’t know how to properly rotate the map or use the time to better your chances at winning the game for your team.

If I was a horrible player like you, i’d be against the changes too. It’d make the game have more strategy and I can no longer hide behind a snowball.

99

My only problem with this is that despite allegedly “months” of testing, players were able to near universally agree on all the bad things within a DAY of the changes hitting the PTR. while the community is obviously much larger than the dev team, there was also warning far in advance that many of the proposed changes would likely have negative results, even from players.

I mean this is pretty damn subjective.

For my money, I like the concept of forts & keeps not giving XP. I think XP should primarily come from player kills and soaking minions. I think that makes a lot of sense and encourages good laning.

If catapults are not enough of an incentive to take an early board lead they should be buffed. I think that makes plenty of sense.

2 Likes
100

Whatever they come up with, I just hope that it reduces the early game snowball.

101

As soon as i saw the xp changes on Blizzcon, i knew people would complain, and mostly cause the lack of positive feedback when taking down Forts. Sure, there’s the catapult on each 3rd wave thing, but it doesnt compare with the imediate satisfaction of taking the Fort down and seeing that sweet XP going up, and maybe instantly giving your team a new level because of it.

So, i think that removing the xp from Forts completely was a bad idea, you guys should have kept at least half, 1/3, w/e… anything is better than 0.

6 Likes
102

The only reason the snowballs exist is LOW SKILL players who don’t have a clue how to play the game. Has nothing to do with the map design or game design.

So the changes are good and bad… helps players who know how to play to better carry… thwarts efforts to properly put low skill players where they belong (anywhere but any skilled players game). The low skill players get carried for doing nothing which in the end… creates skill friction elsewhere in the spectrum.

Soaking a lane is not rocket science.

2 Likes
103

Change for the sake of change is hardly a logical incentive to come back and play.

If these XP changes go through the game is going to be worse than it was when you quit, you’ll just come back, be disgusted, and quit again.

Blizz had an idea, everyone and i mean EVERYONE hates it after testing it or seeing it tested and now they are rethinking it. If they can’t figure out a way to get it to work well then it SHOULD be reverted. Go back to the drawing board and think up something else.

There’s no shame in trying something out and admitting it wasn’t a good idea. Actually I think it shows maturity and accountability and makes me more confident in their decision making process in the future.

8 Likes
104

Everyone know that with the current matchmaking you will play with low skill players, whatever the level you play.

105

I don’t know what you’re on about, but I don’t support the changes, nor the changes we’ve had in the past.