Toxicity is born out of frustration. A person who can’t control their frustration is gonna vent and lack of a score screen won’t change that. The details, which are largely insignificant, may change but toxic is toxic.
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That is a valid point, no harm in trying to get bigger numbers. Still, there is no reason to see your team mates’ stats mid-game for that.
Its not how much dmg you are doing in relation to your teammates that matters… Its how much dmg are you doing in relation to your opponent that matters.
In this idea you would still see your stats and your opponents stats during the game to make that comparison though.
Even still, be careful on making such comparisons. Not all assassins are gonna do the same amount of dmg or have the same amount of kills. They just arent designed the same way.
What makes your damage in relation to the enemy more important than the damage in relation to your teammates? I don’t see the difference there.
Also my example was talking specifically about one hero: Maiev. You either didn’t read or didn’t understand my post. Your point there actually contradicts your previous statement: If you shouldn’t compare different heroes damage then why does it matter whether you compare to your own team or the enemy team?
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Because generally speaking… when you do more dmg than your opponent… you win. Winning is the objective of the game.
Perhaps it was you who didnt read something. The last sentence in my message:
This is objectively false. You can do double the highest damage of your enemies highest damage dealer and still lose. Consistently.
The way you worded it sounded as though you were saying you shouldn’t compare two different heroes. If you’re saying you shouldn’t compare the same hero across different games then I disagree. You need to take into account what you could have reasonably done given the two team compositions and map, but suggesting that you shouldn’t compare one (insert hero) damage to other (insert same hero) damage is a non-starter.
But we’ve trailed off of the original point of this post: mitigating toxicity. The burden of proof is on you for saying that removing damage stats will lower toxicity. I’ve seen plenty people make the point that toxic people will be toxic no matter what, but from you all I’ve seen is “nah man you’re wrong”. So make a valid argument or give up.
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So comparing your dmg against your opponent’s doesn’t matter…yet your original point was you wanted to compare your dmg to your teammates dmg. That matters even less!
We got on this topic because some are claiming waiting until the game is over to see your teammates stats is too big a burden to bear. I submit its only a minor inconvenience.
Plz plz plz read the whole thread. Ive done so much typing in this thread and you clearly didnt read any of it.
I ceded that some people will still be toxic and this doesnt eliminate all toxicity about 40 times in this thread. So not once did I say “nah, your wrong” on that point.
My point once again… This will significantly reduce but not eliminate the toxicity in this game.
This is exactly why I encourage people who want to get better at a competitive game to actually watch Pro Games. People at the apex of competitive play are always doing anything they can to gather as much information as possible to make the best possible decision at any given time. I think the average HOTS player would be shocked to see how often top players are looking at stats, talents and then shotcalling afterwards.
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You still have yet to explain HOW it will “significantly reduce” toxicity. We’ve all made the point that it will not reduce toxicity because such behavior is not dependent on seeing stats - it’s dependent on human nature. So far as I have seen you only say “it will reduce toxicity!” without laying out how it would reduce it.
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You are simplifying stats as one purpose when they essentially do quite a lot more than that.
Whether you rely on it or not depends on you, though from my own experience, yes, stats says everything, especially its talent section, it explains problems it shows flaws and allows for more clear reviewing, otherwise you are playing headless chicken, no one learns anything.
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Of course I’m simplifying, for conversational purposes I think it’s better to have a clear rather than an overly complicated argument. I know full well this is not a binary situation but that we’re talking about trade-offs. And for the purpose of reducing toxicity I hold the opinion that hiding other players’ stats during the match, the positives would outweight the negatives. Do note however the following what is being proposed (at least to my understanding).
- You can still see your own stats.
- You can see all stats after the game has ended.
- You can see talents taken mid match.
And after I’ve made my unreasonable argument I can start reaching out so that the end result would satisfy the most people. Like maybe make showing your stats to other people an opt-in feature or make it a privilege you lose once you get silenced? Something like that.
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I believe I have, but I’ll spell it out.
It is much harder to complain about something you are completely unaware of…
Take the example of Blizzard not showing your opponent team is a 5 man premade group. Since you have no idea how the opponent is comprised, complaining about it will go down.
Sure you can still say “This opponent is a premade groups and this sux!” but since you are just guessing, your comments mean nothing and are easily ignored.
This is just simple logic. I would bet almost all toxicity begins the same way… with the Tab button. Coincidence?
And yes… we all know some people will be jerks no matter what and dont need stats to be a jerk. But dont let ‘perfect’ be the enemy of ‘good’. Meaning dont take the position: “if we can’t solve it all, lets do nothing”.
Well I’m glad you at least are aware of it that its not a black and white situation. 
Toxicity through statistic is only just one of many ways, removing it doesn’t exactly shut down the issue, it does stop essentially like you said use stats as an argument but you are also looking at this wrongly.
What if it was used positively too? In that case… why are we limiting stats because of bad apples? Why do we need to remove data of how currently the match is going during real time?
Deaths, takedowns, XP and so on are very important, and if I realize a solo laner is soaking very poorly then I can highlight it before its too late, or the fact the enemy team takedown finisher is being obnoxious and is required to be focused more.
These type of info helps both the team and party in realizing faults and improve on them during the match, remove stats will only keep things going as guesses.
Please hope you at least acknowledge that just because things can be used negatively doesn’t mean it should be removed, we don’t need to remove VC for example because its used in a toxic way, because otherwise we are shutting down a decent tool of communication when used properly.
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You cannot reduce trolling by giving trolls exactly what they want, which is literally just attention.
But you know what, 71 posts in I kinda think you’re just playing the game here too. How can you seriously think you’re gonna remove stats and stop trolls?
Do you think your stats don’t reflect your performance? Maybe you think your performance is invisible, like nobody will notice Valla can’t kill anything or whatever struggle leads you to attack the stats? Which nobody is overstating by the way, it’s kind of how players check their empirical performance.
Here’s an idea, if trolls got you so bad you’re making a 73 reply thread to try and tank whatever features they’re using to attack you… just turn chat off.
Don’t punish me, who uses stats to gauge his performance in real-time, because you lack the backbone to make a more decisive action against trolls in your game.
Don’t be that person.
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Most of the time I see someone flaming someone else, it’s because they’re either doing something stupid or dying a lot.
Rarely will someone bring up stats unless they’re bronze.
Sorry man. When someone says something to me… I respond. Thats called a conversation. Im not mad. I think you’re not mad. And we are free to leave at any time.
You’re right, Ive done a lot of typing. It is a little frustrating that people completely ignore the points I made and just keep reiterating that there will still be trolls no matter what… we all know that. What do you want to do to make the problem better?
For starters, don’t automate bans. It’s just making the problem worse because the player isn’t usually encouraged to change so much as ‘best the machine,’ which they clearly are.
Secondarily? The Tribunal. It’s a feature that was once in LoL which allowed players in good standing to cast votes on report cases. I think the community taking part in setting their own bar is crucial, as it shows the suits upstairs what we consider trolling, poor form or worthy of punishment at least.
My third move is going to gag some people, but I think it’s important to bridge with trolls and have them explain their case. Yeah, some are projecting hard but some cases people genuinely believe they’re in the right. Astride the Tribunal, I want players knowing they’ve been reported to such a level, and I want them able to state their case so that all players and staff can read it.
My last moves are also gonna gag. No more rainbow matches. SL requires level 100 and three owned heroes in every category (bar support which won’t count either way because there are like what, five and they’re all way different) so that we A) set a standard for entry level performances at ranks and B) curtail the ability to just smurf out. I know you want to play with your friends but either train them outside SL together so you aren’t just carrying them two ranks above, or just pick one of the four or so other modes available for play if you wish to group. Team League should imply gold vs gold. I don’t really care for a discussion on that one, because I’m really frankly tired of plats who need to punch down because they’re hard capped because they learn at a gradeschool level. If you need to punch down so badly, just play AI. Damn.
Between the first three I intend to more clearly define what is and isn’t okay, and deal with it through the lens of players who have to suffer the problems. With the first specifically I intend to reduce animosity toward the system which is aimed at gunning down “reactionary” or “retaliatory” kinds of trolls. Players who feel less jilted, troll less. The second and third changes intend to put both sides to their P’s and Q’s; if you know that polite Raynor you’re trashing may end up judging you, that might cause a pause. My last change is geared toward generally healthier competitive environs, which is pure net gain in my eyes. If we enforce a standard, it means all players overcome that basic gate… it also implies hours of work to get an account in the door, which horridly reduces the ability to smurf.
But unfortunately, most of these ideas only hold a ton of water when dealing with an actual playerbase. Implemented now, most changes will hurt more than heal because the trolls are a soggy undercrust of our game that will remain there in perpetuity, and the playerbase has not shown signs of growth significant enough to mollify that problem. Trolls are simply prevalent now because we lack other players to surround them with to drown out their noise. We could even add a Team League back, if we had players enough to fund it.
The thing is, trolls go at everything, that’s everyone’s point. You remove one thing and they’ll go to another and now you deal with consequences attached to that removal. If you really mean to remove what trolls can use to troll then just dock it all. Chat, stats, friendslist, everything. We’ll play in silence, because that is well and truly the only way… and even then you’ll still have tilts and ints and everything.
That’s why we’re stonewalling this. This isn’t like other arguments like it, because trolls aren’t like other arguing points. They’re people with little value of their time or others’, so when you bend the game that hard around them, all you’ve done is bend over to show them they can walk all over wherever they please. Rob them of resources and they’ll literally just make stuff up and go off. They be like that. I’ve seen people lose their minds in bot games, they just don’t need a reasonable reason.
So I implore you. Don’t make your solution to trolls something that forces other players to bend to them.
You’ve got some good ideas there. If you made a thread advocating them I’d likely voice my support (for whatever thats worth 
).
My only small quibble would be… the majority of toxic comments I see dont come from maniac trolls who just lash out at the first person they see, they come from pretty good players, who have low patience for people worse than them and are highly frustrated in the moment.
As stated already, a true troll is hard to stop, but I think they are only a portion of the toxic comments.
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Well, like I said, I’d love that these ideas might be valid but most of them require a playerbase that’s growing or grown, and ours is kind of… showing the opposite.
At the least, though, I don’t really want to remove things to get at trolls; adjustment or setting of standards, perhaps we need a ‘bad attitude’ queue too like we have for leavers. But what I think is harmful is when we start to reduce what’s already there in an attempt to curb them.
That’s like banning all kids from the sandbox because one kid screwed up, right? We need to think in terms of what will organically work around players who don’t need that punishment, so that their game experience doesn’t ultimately change for the worst. That’s why I’m okay adding a limitation to SL, but less so when discussing removal of features that otherwise-innocent players use for innocent means.
It would be better remove potatoe teammates until end of game…