We’ve seen it a million times… anytime you lose a match someone on the team has to go toxic and rip someone for the loss. I think one of the things that invites toxicity in HotS is the fact that you have a ring-side seat in observing your teammates play.
So lets defang these toxic people that are all too common in this game… How about we don’t let players see any of their teammates stats until after the match is over? (you can still see your own stats, and your opponents) What real benefit does seeing teammates stats during the game really serve?
If you are losing team fights, do you really not know:
Assassins should do more dmg
Healers should do more healing
Everyone should be trying to die less often
Those things are universally true and you dont need a stat screen to tell you that.
Think about it, if you could only see your own stats and the opponents stats, its much harder to be toxic. Sure you could still rip the entire team and no one can eliminate jerks entirely, but I think this idea would curb toxicity by 90%.
What if you didnt know how many times your teammate died… it would be glorious!
Let the players stay on the fully-revealed stats screen for an hour after the match is over if they really want to decode why they lost the match. I dont see any downside to this but there is potentially huge upside.
What ppl think would happen with hidden stats: silence and happyness
What would actually happen: you ‘do no dmg/fed 10 trillion times’ #YouCantEvenDisproveMyAccusation
Toxicity cannot be rooted out with some meaningless change like hiding stats (which can be used for good and toxic ppl need no base to be toxic and unsatisfied).
Nope, because it’s not the source, just a disguise.
Yes, because ingame stats are useful information that can be used for good.
I mean… it’s your own idea after all, would be weird otherwise.
Maybe this should be done by the ppl who can’t handle ppl citing their actual stats.
Why would you care if all is said is your actual stats?
If the person being toxic is not right, it doesn’t matter that they use the truth or not.
If the person being toxic is right, tho they shouldn’t be toxic about it, but you need to be able to handle criticism.
Please elaborate on what you would learn that you didn’t already know?
So the real problem is people just cant handle the criticism? If your point of view is simply that toxicity isnt a problem, thats fine, but I would bet the majority would disagree with you.
There is is no value in “being right” and telling a weaker player that they are weak and make them feel unwelcomed. Then they stop playing, and we all get to come to the forums and complain that this game is dead… and repeat.
As someone who plays tanks very often, if I see one of my assassins has low hero damage, that could be a sign I am not doing my job and making enough space for them to shine. This is particularly true for mages such as KTZ or Jaina. If a healer is dying, I should watch more carefully to see if they need peels.
I can often sort of tell if I am doing my job, but having specific stats makes it easier to identify potential weak spots that it is my job to shore up.
I can see how well do I perform to my average (since I have vague memory of my performance).
I can also compare myself to the enemy to see if I need to push myself more or I do good.
I can see my mistakes that I might wouldn’t notice through my stats.
I can also see if the enemy is doing something or not based on their stats (mostly the two kinds of Heals).
Tho it is true that ppl usually can’t handle it, that’s not what I said.
I said no such things. Actually I said the opposite:
If that’s true, we live in a hopeless world.
Why do you think that new players would feel better and more welcomed just because their stats (which they have no idea what are in the first place) are not cited by toxic ppl?
You don’t remove toxicity. You just remove the kind that is the most barable because it least it’s the cold truth.
I can learn if someone says my stats are bad, would consider the person who said it in toxic way a jerk but at least that’s a legit feedback.
But I won’t leanr anything if I can’t even see they’re right or wrong and what did I do wrong.
Unwelcoming ppl won’t disappear. And if they can say anything be it true or wrong without the ability to disprove them, I think it would be even worse than now.
Yes, but my point is you should be properly peeling for your assassins regardless of their DMG numbers. A stat screen shouldnt make you try harder, you should try your hardest from the jump.
I think the stats are useful because they can give more precise information about the game in real time.
If you see someone’s structure damage going up when he doesn’t appear on the map, you know he’s doing a camp, for example.
Also, stat screen may help you realize if you’re doing too much of one thing. I often play solo laner, and realize at some point that I should be more present in teamfights because of the stats screen.
Having information on how low your damages are, or your healing, may push you to play more aggressively, or, on the opposite, more carefully.
Finally, seeing the enemy damage may help you locate the best players of the enemy team to isolate and kill them early in the teamfight.
So, I would say that even though stat screens don’t say everything about the game, they tend to give a deeper understanding of what’s actually happening.
The answer to toxicity, if you find it to be too much of a problem, is:
say “hi” or “glhf” at the beginning of a game. I do it all the time, and you would be surprised how it changes your team’s mind sometimes
don’t be toxic yourself, try to explain how the people being flamed is not as bad as some may make them seem (if he truly isn’t, else you can just try to calm down the guy who’s raging)
mute truly toxic people, because there’s a button especially designed for this.
I am not talking about peeling for assassins, I am talking about looking at their damage compared to what I know a Jaina can pump out when she has the opportunity to do so. I may think things are fine because we aren’t dying, but if the enemy isn’t dying, I need to figure out why and change that. If I see a low damage Jaina, she may not be able to get in range to do effective damage, so I need to change how I am engaging.
In my original message I said you can only see your own stats and your opponents. The only stat hidden until end of game are you teammates.
OK problem solved…
Atleast quote the whole sentence… talk about being taken out of context.
Trust me when I say that if you are dying too much or generally playing bad… you know it. Atleast I do. And again, you can see your own stats with this idea.
No one is doing a careful analysis on the criticism to see if stats back them up… The toxic person simply looks at stat screen, finds the person with the least dmg done or most deaths and types “you suck scrub” or “thanks for feeding”. For every 1 helpful comment, there are 20 toxic ones.
How do you know they checked them in the first place based on your example?
Nothing indicates it. Just “you’re bad”. And we should lose the stat screen (only ally part, okay) due to this? Ridiculous.
I’ll cede your point and say you aren’t wrong. But given how big a problem the toxicity is in this game, I think it greatly outweighs the value you describe that you would miss out on.
If you don’t see the stats of your team mates, you will most likely draw the wrong conclusions from the onscreen information.
You see every time when one of your team mates dies. And you will perhaps over exaggerate the amount of deaths just by looking at these information.
Looking at the stats gives you objective data and not information based on subjective perception.
I just don’t think the potential amount of flaming reduced is enough to offset the value lost, especially among the higher ELOs. If people can’t point to specific numbers, they will still pile on who they feel is the weakest, generally whoever is dead at the moment they start typing.
You correctly point out that this isnt a silver bullet. But I do think it will take ammunition away from the jerks. Maybe I am not a student of the game but without a stat screen I couldnt tell you which assassin on my team did the most dmg, or how many times people died (unless they really are feeding).
Doesn’t matter who did the most dmg, I can see who got the most kills. Who died the most time. Who doesn’t show up at the right place or at the right time.
I’m not a toxic person, but I could use these for insults even without a statscreen.
Or ppl can blame the Healer for not healing even if they top the Healing Charts. (Which without the stat screen cannot be pointed out to be a baseless accusation.)
So we kinda end up at my biggest point against this: toxicity doesn’t even need any base or truth. Toxic ppl are not acting toxic because they can check the stats screen. They act toxic because that’s what they do and would still do even if they can’t cite numbers.
