What even is “really feeding”? To some it’s 10+. To others it’s 8+. To some it’s 5+. To toxic ppl ‘insert the number they died’+.
Maybe its just my psychology, but if I get insulted and I know its based on nothing… I laugh it off. But if I really am having a bad game, I’d rather my mistakes not not be used as a club to beat me down and tell me Im the reason we lost the game. (secret: I probably already know that)
Can this happen anyways? Sure. But my whole point is it would happen a lot less often. Its harder to insult someone if you have no idea how they played in relation to the rest of the team…until the game is over.
I tried to say that ppl do have an idea.
And what if they whisper you after the match? Does it hurt less?
Agree on that. There are people who do die on purpose to either grief, or just end the game more quickly.
But the definition of feeding nowadays is: Anyone with 2 more deaths than me.
“Feeding” has lost all meaning.
Removing more information hasn’t created less toxicity. One example is no longer showing that people are grouped on the load screen. This was supposedly to stop people from giving up if they were a solo stack vs a 5 man for example. I’ve been in games where someone already knew the enemy was a 5 stack and refused to play.
Also, as you can find out after the game they were 5 stack, going on the almost daily threads complaining about the “5 man stack vs solo QM advantage” hiding the information has done nothing to curb any of the negativity around this issue.
If I’m in a game with an Illidan who is dying almost as soon as he re-spawns, I’m going to notice it stats screen or not. I’m not a person who will call someone out for this, but I will notice it and removing the stats screen will do nothing to reduce toxicity in the game as players will recognize performance issues regardless.
When losing the type of player who tends to be toxic and finds fault in others, will still do so, stats screen or no, facts or not. *I’m not citing the stats screen as representing facts to solely justify player performance.
As many people have pointed out, the stats screen is too useful a tool for personal performance information to remove for the small chance it will eliminate toxicity.
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Toxic players will always be toxic no matter how much information you take away from them. Many other players, however, have the opportunity to improve by using team stats in real time to make INFORMED decisions. Even Pro Players can make better decisions by using team stats as a guide.
You will never defang toxic players unless you literally replace them with an equally skilled bot the moment they start acting toxic. Take away stats and they can still be toxic in chat. Take away chat, they can still be toxic by feeding/refusing to show up/afking/etc.
Real time flow of information can let you know if your healer is getting bodied, if your DPS isn’t getting enough opportunity to do damage, if certain team members aren’t soaking enough, etc. HOTS is a more macro-focused game than most other Mobas so having constant information to make decisions and shotcalls is a MUST.
yea but without a visual guide to tell you exactly how off the mark your team is, every action you take is just a guess. Demanding that players guess because you want to restrict information is just asking the game to be worse for no reason.
You don’t see a downside because you have some kind of alternate reality in your head where restricting information magically eliminates toxicity. Toxic players in the real world are going to be toxic no matter what. All you’re doing is harming other players for no net positive gain.
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So with your idea implemented I can feed and under-perform and no one will know until after the match. They would have to watching my every move to check if I’m doing my part to win the match.
The stats sheet is useful to quickly check stats and adapt.
The stats sheet doesn’t breed toxicity. The players are toxic before they started playing the game. There are many other examples of this game bringing out the toxicity in players. Players will point to anything to push the blame unto others. Yet, the stats sheet is still important.
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Kel’thuzad’s damage is pure garbage without a good front line bodyguarding him all the time. Preferably two bodyguards.
If he finishes Blight super quickly but ends the game at 25k damage and 0 deaths, the tanks can also look in the mirror. A good KTZ isn’t going to walk in the front line alone with zero escapes and a small health pool.
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Some people use the stats to bash on others.
Other people use the stats to judge the strength and the weakness of the two teams during the match and help adapting.
Should we ban knives just because some people stab? How would you eat and cook without them?
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I like stats! It’s fun embarrassing the chicken ranged assassin complaining about the melee assassins’ high deaths in a no tank QM game or the guy bragging about how much experience he’s got for the team while getting no kill assists.
Stats are always helpful for me, and if you understand the context behind the numbers, is a very useful learning tool. The toxicity in using stats are so fleeting and they’re just numbers. Either the argument holds weight or you can contextualize the numbers. There’s at least something to base off of instead of more subjective insults.
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For what it is worth OW only shows you your own stats and ranking in each category. I think I’ve been called out less than ten times during my 400+ levels and I highly doubt OW is played by more mature and well adjusted people than HotS, so my opinion is that hiding stats really works (to a degree).
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What’s with people and limiting utility because of toxicity, its just dumb.
Have you all tried being nice? It’s really good, try it more.
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I’ve recently had an ARAM as auriel where someone accused me of “0 heals”
And although they are correct I wasn’t healing for squat, what they fail to see is the reason; auriel heals when her or others are successful in dealing damage. And since we’re getting bodied left and right and they were chain feeding and dealing very little damage, I’m not able to have enough energy to be an effective healer.
Even with these stats in hand and their accusation, I am confident enough in my abilities to know that blaming me is wrong despite the numbers that would otherwise have a newbie reach a shallow conclusion. Numbers don’t matter, it’s how you react to accusations, whether you’re able to deduce things on your own or leave yourself at the mercy of shallow people.
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FPS =/= MOBA
You can’t compare a (strategic) ego-shooter with a highly strategic MOBA. The best strategy in Overwatch is adaptation and selecting the right hero within the game, something you can’t even do in HotS.
Statistics doesn’t play such a vital role in Overwatch.
But you’re very dependent on data in HotS!
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I like having the stats there to shut toxic people up, actually.
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When there is no other control available I believe I can make such comparison because I believe it is the next best thing. OW isn’t a typical twitch shooter, and although it’s greatest inspiration is TF2, some of the mechanics share DNA with MOBAs like skills, objectives and emphasis on team fights. Furthermore there is enough asymmetry in hero design in both games to render statistics highly subject to interpretation.
Widowmaker probably doesn’t have top damage or kills compared to DVa who chips minuscule amounts of damage constantly and effectively stat pads most games. And the same applies to HotS, it just has more layers to trick you thinking you’re doing better than you actually are and that the others are doing worse than they actually are. For example Lunara has top hero damage but Ming is lagging behind. Is Ming bad or does the team lack cc and burst damage to get picks and give her resets? Statistics don’t tell you that.
Hardly ever in HotS are you dependent on statistics. Like do you need the game to tell you if you’re doing well or not? Do you need to check your exp before deciding if you should clear a minion wave as Xul? Does you knowing the stats of players playing poorly make them play better, even if you politely point it out to them? And the answer is no. Looking at stats is just sating that dopamine itch. There is nothing there that is required the UI doesn’t tell you. You’re just conditioned to think you need it.
At lower levels you place a stupid amount of value on stats because you don’t know the game and have no coherent understanding of strategy. At higher levels you don’t need the stats because you know the game and formulate your strategy on other things than “dump more numbers on them”.
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You can feed and under perform WITH the stat screen if thats the type of person you are.
So no… as mentioned multiple times in thread… this is not a silver bullet. But you are missing the beauty of it. Think about this:
In this thread, I say “Mumrah, I think you are a bad healer!” This insult isnt even worth a response from you, because you (along with everyone else) knows I have no idea what Im talking about and have no idea what kind of healing numbers Mumrah can put out.
Same thing in game. If I say you are a bad healer despite having no idea what kind of healing you put out… its automatically a joke. It should not bother you in the least. Can people still say it anyways? Sure, but their comment is meaningless.
The 2 pushbacks on this idea are:
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People will be toxic anyways. True… welcome to the internet. Do you want to make it better or do nothing?
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I cant perform some sabre-metrics analysis in the middle of the game and adjust my tactics because Jaina has only 23,712 in dmg instead 25,255 in dmg. How about playing so Jaina can MAX her dmg… no matter what that number might be. I just hope my teammates show up to the OBJ on time, let alone hoping they look at the stat screen and make micro adjustments based on how my stats look.
No doing enough dmg? Losing teamfights and objectives tells you that.
No doing enough soak? The fact that you team is 2 levels down from you opponent tells you that.
So at the end of the day, how big a problem is toxicity? Judging by the pushback in this thread, its not much of a problem to be slightly inconvenienced over.
This would be like banning pings and chat because they can be used to be toxic. No ty. Ignore people who can’t control themselves, that’s your best bet.
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There are many people who turn off chat at the beginning of each game just to avoid the likely toxicity that comes if their team loses. Teamwork suffers but what else are they supposed to do?